Des Moines vs Oklahoma City (size, live, state, better)
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People who can't understand why DM is beating OKC have never been to both cities. I've lived in both and DM is by far the best metro it's size in America, OKC but bigger but what it offers is pathetic.
DM has the United States largest state fair in city limits, the largest farmer market. The most expansive skywalk in the nation, a great community college system, very low crime, great restaurants, public transit and much more. Also it's a close drive to chicago, minneapolis, and Omaha. It packs a harder punch than most metros double it's size.
Actually OKC has ALOT more to offer now than it did before. I never been to Des Moines and looks like an interesting city. But all I can say is that OKC is on the cuffs a major boom.
Actually OKC has ALOT more to offer now than it did before. I never been to Des Moines and looks like an interesting city. But all I can say is that OKC is on the cuffs a major boom.
I would agree but they have been saying that for years and it never happens. Problem is OKC's weather and politics are deal breakers for many, and for good reason. However, you are right that today's OKC offers much more than it did several years ago. It's still not on the level of what a city its size should offer but it's improving.
Ive been to both, and OKC still wins. Des Moines is a nice city, a top-tier under a million City, but it aint no OKC. It comes close, but its still ten years away from being OKC. Thats a good thing for DM, that means your growing....
Des moines wins for me because it is a nicer city and offers more. The city has historic East Village and nicer shopping areas as well. Oklahoma City is too conservative and lacks a decent downtown. Chattanooga has a better downtown than Oklahoma City.
Overall it's likely because Des Moines is more progressive, prettier, and has a more compact, urban downtown. Des Moines is Midwestern while OKC is Southern. Des Moines has a white collar feel while OKC feels decidedly blue collar. I don't think Des Moines offers a whole lot more than OKC, but it's an overall nicer city. Oklahoma City will always have perception issues because "Oklahoma" is in its name. Oklahoma is a state with a negative stigma very close to that of Mississippi.
^ I think that's a pretty good comparison. I have been to both cities many times.
Despite their size differences on paper (they feel about the same size). I would probably give OKC the slight edge due to having an NBA team, but I personally prefer the more midwestern/white collar culture of Des Moines. I also think Des Moines is a much nicer looking city with better topography and is just more inviting to bike around etc. Also, Chicago (much better than Dallas) is not too far away and I like the more diverse seasons and less severe weather of Des Moines.
OKC is trying really really hard to go to the next level with new office towers, streetcars, riverwalks etc, but it will always be a very conservative and blue collar population in an extremely spread out city in a very ugly part of the country (I know parts of OK are pretty) with often very dangerous weather. The city has a lot to overcome, much of which it will never overcome.
So considering everything OKC has against it, I really don't think it's a bad place. But its the polar opposite of where I would choose to live as far as built environment, topography, culture, shopping and general urban sophistication. I'm sure people will think, Iowa can't possibly be any better. Trust me, Des Moines and OKC are VERY different places.
So I would choose Des Moines obviously, but hats off to OKC. I don't think it will ever boom like many other cities in the south, but it will continue to get better and grow quickly and appeal to a certain crowd of people many of which would prefer to live in a rural area, but do okay in OKC.
I think Oklahoma City will always be held back by its severe weather and extreme conservatism.
OKC is at ground zero of tornado alley. Go 100 miles in any direction and the threat is still there but becomes more manageable. Honestly I don't think any major city should exist in a geographical location like central Oklahoma It is too dangerous. Tulsa on the other hand still has the risk but it isn't quite as extreme. I am currently stuck in OKC and hate it here for so many reasons, but the top reason I want to leave is the severe weather. It's too much to deal with every year, especially since I can live 100 miles away in any direction and be away from the worst of it.
Secondly, the culture is far too conservative, and that drives away young professionals who have the option to leave. The Southern Baptist and Independent Fundamental Baptist churches are a dominating force in the culture of OKC. The conservatism is a big factor in why the city lacks many things that other cities its size and even smaller do offer. The conservative culture favors early marriages, suburban sprawl, car culture, megachurches, and opposes things like urban living, the creative class, and cultural diversity. While other states are legalizing marijuana, its 2016 and Oklahoma hasn't even fully repealed alcohol prohibition (it's on the ballot this election though so hopefully it finally gets repealed). The fact that most people who move to OKC are from rural Oklahoma and surrounding states and most natives who prefer urban environments leave keeps the city from having the kind of urban sophistication that most cities its size and some even smaller (like Tulsa for instance) have.
I think the other things working against OKC such as lack of natural beauty could be overcome. After all, Dallas isn't much better on that front but it's a much, much, nicer and more vibrant city. I don't see OKC ever overcoming the above things though and therefore will not join the Sunbelt boom.
^ Over-exaggeration on most of your topics as usual. Young professionals aren't being driven away from OKC. 25-34 year olds with Bachelor's degrees made up 31% of that age bracket in 2015, compared to 28% in 2010. Urban living, the creative class, and cultural diversity are certainly not being opposed here in OKC. Lots of construction still on-going in the core. OKC has a large Asian community, Hispanic community, Black community, and Native American community. Relating to the creative class, I'll leave this here:
That's not opposition to the creative class.
And it's just silly to compare OKC to Dallas. Of course Dallas is much more vibrant; just Dallas' portion of the Metroplex has 4.2 million people compared to OKC's 1.4 million.
I think Oklahoma City will always be held back by its severe weather and extreme conservatism.
OKC is at ground zero of tornado alley. Go 100 miles in any direction and the threat is still there but becomes more manageable. Honestly I don't think any major city should exist in a geographical location like central Oklahoma It is too dangerous. Tulsa on the other hand still has the risk but it isn't quite as extreme. I am currently stuck in OKC and hate it here for so many reasons, but the top reason I want to leave is the severe weather. It's too much to deal with every year, especially since I can live 100 miles away in any direction and be away from the worst of it.
Secondly, the culture is far too conservative, and that drives away young professionals who have the option to leave. The Southern Baptist and Independent Fundamental Baptist churches are a dominating force in the culture of OKC. The conservatism is a big factor in why the city lacks many things that other cities its size and even smaller do offer. The conservative culture favors early marriages, suburban sprawl, car culture, megachurches, and opposes things like urban living, the creative class, and cultural diversity. While other states are legalizing marijuana, its 2016 and Oklahoma hasn't even fully repealed alcohol prohibition (it's on the ballot this election though so hopefully it finally gets repealed). The fact that most people who move to OKC are from rural Oklahoma and surrounding states and most natives who prefer urban environments leave keeps the city from having the kind of urban sophistication that most cities its size and some even smaller (like Tulsa for instance) have.
I think the other things working against OKC such as lack of natural beauty could be overcome. After all, Dallas isn't much better on that front but it's a much, much, nicer and more vibrant city. I don't see OKC ever overcoming the above things though and therefore will not join the Sunbelt boom.
All of this is unfortunate. What do you think Oklahoma City needs to do to attract young people back to the city?
All of this is unfortunate. What do you think Oklahoma City needs to do to attract young people back to the city?
I don't think OKC has a problem with young professionals being driven away from the city, rather, I think they're already moving to the city. As I posted previously and in another thread, young people with Bachelor's made up a larger share of OKC's population in 2015 than in 2010 (from the Census 2015 estimates). And, OKC saw a 59% growth in it's tech talent from 2010-2015, 3rd among small tech markets, behind Charlotte and Nashville (from CBRE).
I don't think OKC has a problem with young professionals being driven away from the city, rather, I think they're already moving to the city. As I posted previously and in another thread, young people with Bachelor's made up a larger share of OKC's population in 2015 than in 2010 (from the Census 2015 estimates). And, OKC saw a 59% growth in it's tech talent from 2010-2015, 3rd among small tech markets, behind Charlotte and Nashville (from CBRE).
That is great news. I guess the more specific question is what is the city doing to shed its bland and conservative image like cities such as Ft. Worth and Indianapolis. Those cities appear to retain those images despite their healthy growth rates and ability to attract new industries.
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