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Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands
It's less comprehensive and user- friendly than Chicago's.
Very subjective to say. I'm sure Chicago is user friendly, but when functioning at it's peak and best performance, DC Metro is extremely convenient to use. With soon direct access to both of its major airports uninterrupted. Neither NY, Chicago, nor LA could boast this.
Philadelphia's regional rail is EXTREMELY expansive. It covers the entire metro and covers 4 states.
And runs once every half hour during peak, and every hour during peak and is expensive. Commuter rail is not city transit.
SEPTA actual city coverage is rather low. The whole densely populated northeast, manyunk, east falls is left out along with lots of other areas. Two subway lines doesn't cut it.
And runs once every half hour during peak, and every hour during peak and is expensive. Commuter rail is not city transit.
SEPTA actual city coverage is rather low. The whole densely populated northeast, manyunk, east falls is left out along with lots of other areas. Two subway lines doesn't cut it.
What are you talking about? Both Manayunk and East Falls are DIRECTLY ON SEPTA regional rail lines -- and Manayunk's station is elevated directly over a back street steps away from the main retail district.
It's less comprehensive and user- friendly than Chicago's.
First premise: wrong... Second: I disagree totally...
DC's Metro rail is currently 117 total miles (and expanding, once the Dulles Airport extension is fully built out). Chicago's L is currently 106 miles... This and the fact that DC is considerably smaller and more compact than Chicago and it's metro area is not as large, either.
How can you say Chicago's L is user friendly when commuters often must wait for trains on unheated, wooden platforms outdoor in Chicago's much harsher winter? When they must either walk outside stations to transfer -- leave the station and walk along the sidewalk (which is the case in the Loop when transferring from the Loop L to the busy Red Line subway along State Street. None of those things are true in the Metro, which has much larger, spacious underground stations with working escalators (as opposed to just narrow stairs in many L subway stations), digital real time/wait-time platform displays and even platforms that light up when trains are coming.
Chicago loves to preserve the old-timey-ness of the L, and that's cool for it is an interesting and historical transit network, but that often does not comport with 21st Century sensibilities when it comes to commuter convenience and comfort.
First premise: wrong... Second: I disagree totally...
DC's Metro rail is currently 117 total miles (and expanding, once the Dulles Airport extension is fully built out). Chicago's L is currently 106 miles... This and the fact that DC is considerably smaller and more compact than Chicago and it's metro area is not as large, either.
How can you say Chicago's L is user friendly when commuters often must wait for trains on unheated, wooden platforms outdoor in Chicago's much harsher winter? When they must either walk outside stations to transfer -- leave the station and walk along the sidewalk (which is the case in the Loop when transferring from the Loop L to the busy Red Line subway along State Street. None of those things are true in the Metro, which has much larger, spacious underground stations with working escalators (as opposed to just narrow stairs in many L subway stations), digital real time/wait-time platform displays and even platforms that light up when trains are coming.
Chicago loves to preserve the old-timey-ness of the L, and that's cool for it is an interesting and historical transit network, but that often does not comport with 21st Century sensibilities when it comes to commuter convenience and comfort.
Metro has more miles of track because it doubles as a commuter rail. Chicago has its own commuter rail. For intra-city commutes, CTA blows it out of the water.
The L has direct service to both airports. The L has flat rate fares. There is nothing less user friendly than having to add money to your card to EXIT stations. DC Metro misses huge, significant neighborhoods like Georgetown and Adams Morgan. I do have to laugh at the notion of Metro having working escalators.
Would agree with the above. A couple of years ago, we flew into Chicago Midway and took a recommendation to take the Orange Line to our hotel off N. Michigan Ave. What an ordeal? In the loop we had to get off the el platform down rickety stairs and find our way down to the Red Line to make our way to N. Michigan Ave. Having three pieces of luggage didn't help either. We had same problem returning to Ohare for the flight home using the red line south and then connecting to the blue line. It was very confusing, inconvenient, with poor signage not to mention the blue line ride was very bumpy. We also found it hard to get to the Robie House in Hyde Park from our hotel using transit. We had to take Merta which is a separate system I believe. We can't figure out why Chicago doesn't have a better system for such a great city.
On another note, on our recent visit to LA, on advice of others, we stayed in Universal City near Universal Studios and only used LAs rail transit to see the city. Much to our surprise we were able to see a lot of LA (Hollywood, downtown and Santa Monica) without having to drive. Transfers were easy and the system is modern. We were told we could have taken rail to Disneyland but we didn't do that.
Or maybe rail overall, but adjust for frequencies. BART's odd in that it's a combination of rapid transit and commuter rail. It's basically a fairly high frequency commuter rail service OR low frequency rapid transit when it's not interlined. When it's interlined with three or more lines, then it becomes like standard rapid transit kind of service such as some parts of Oakland and all of San Francisco--though that changes on later (not even that late) weeknights and Sundays where service really gets curtailed and the lines are run quite differently where. Meanwhile, Philadelphia's two main rapid transit service lines are quite long and each has the kind of service levels that the three/four line interlined parts of BART have, so that's a lot more stations being served with those sort of frequency levels in Philadelphia--and then there's PATCO Speedline which is a third line not managed by SEPTA which also has pretty decent frequency. The two SEPTA rapid transit services get 24 hour service for Friday and Saturday overnights which is nice and PATCO is 24/7. Meanwhile, BART becomes the below with pretty middling frequencies (along with the loss of some interlining) after 7 pm and on Sundays:
With that, trips from, let's say visiting friends in the Mission and trying to get back to Berkeley means waiting for an okay frequency train to 19th st or MacArthur and waiting for another lesser frequency train to complete the trip. I don't think that's great. Certainly not terrible, but not great, especially for something decently early since 7 pm is pretty early to be switching things up for evening service.
Meanwhile SEPTA's Regional Rail lines are actually all electrified and have pretty good daytime frequencies on weekdays and its more interlined portions often have as good a frequency as single or double-lined BART stations, so it's in some ways also up for consideration.
Overall, I found Philadelphia's system better though hanging on to the token system for so longer was weird.
The frequencies are a major flaw in SEPTA regional. When I would visit Conshohocken to visit my parents, it was always a real pain waiting once an hour for the train. Also, when you don't have a car forget about regional rail. It isn't tied into any other system. The bus that stopped at Conshy train station wasn't even timed appropriately with the train. Very poor if you ask me.
Would agree with the above. A couple of years ago, we flew into Chicago Midway and took a recommendation to take the Orange Line to our hotel off N. Michigan Ave. What an ordeal? In the loop we had to get off the el platform down rickety stairs and find our way down to the Red Line to make our way to N. Michigan Ave. Having three pieces of luggage didn't help either. We had same problem returning to Ohare for the flight home using the red line south and then connecting to the blue line. It was very confusing, inconvenient, with poor signage not to mention the blue line ride was very bumpy. We also found it hard to get to the Robie House in Hyde Park from our hotel using transit. We had to take Merta which is a separate system I believe. We can't figure out why Chicago doesn't have a better system for such a great city.
On another note, on our recent visit to LA, on advice of others, we stayed in Universal City near Universal Studios and only used LAs rail transit to see the city. Much to our surprise we were able to see a lot of LA (Hollywood, downtown and Santa Monica) without having to drive. Transfers were easy and the system is modern. We were told we could have taken rail to Disneyland but we didn't do that.
A lot had to do with deferred maintenance and lack of expansion due to bloated employee wages and benefits. Chicago is the poster child for great benefits and perks at the expense of the underlying service, in this case, transit.
Chicago had to, I know this is going to be hard to believe especially this being Chicago, create a tax on the sale of property, the seller is now burdened with a CTA Tax.
First premise: wrong... Second: I disagree totally...
DC's Metro rail is currently 117 total miles (and expanding, once the Dulles Airport extension is fully built out). Chicago's L is currently 106 miles... This and the fact that DC is considerably smaller and more compact than Chicago and it's metro area is not as large, either.
How can you say Chicago's L is user friendly when commuters often must wait for trains on unheated, wooden platforms outdoor in Chicago's much harsher winter? When they must either walk outside stations to transfer -- leave the station and walk along the sidewalk (which is the case in the Loop when transferring from the Loop L to the busy Red Line subway along State Street. None of those things are true in the Metro, which has much larger, spacious underground stations with working escalators (as opposed to just narrow stairs in many L subway stations), digital real time/wait-time platform displays and even platforms that light up when trains are coming.
Chicago loves to preserve the old-timey-ness of the L, and that's cool for it is an interesting and historical transit network, but that often does not comport with 21st Century sensibilities when it comes to commuter convenience and comfort.
I've said and posted about Chicago's L system, namely the actual Loop part of it. It's from the 1890s! Chicagoans love this antiquated, rickety, and noisy Loop that creates dark, cavernous streets it runs above.
No other city has an elevated line like it in its CBD, or at least this old and outdated. I've suggested to leave maybe the Van Buren Street section standing and turn it into a high-line type of park, this would keep the locals happy by still seeing at least a part of this awful Loop line.
The Loop lines should have gone underground when the 2 subway lines were being built in the '30s-'50s. It's too late now though. The recent CTA upgrades include something called the Jeffery Jump and there's talk of some BRT lines. Also, for some reason, the Red Line is supposed to be extended south from 95th Street, into the economically devastated and dangerous Roseland area.
Meanwhile, LA and New York are building new subway lines.
Bottom line is the elevated Loop is old, antiquated, and inefficient in the 21st Century.
The L network is generally quasi-extensive.
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Both Manayunk and East Falls are DIRECTLY ON SEPTA regional rail lines -- and Manayunk's station is elevated directly over a back street steps away from the main retail district.
