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View Poll Results: Which is better?
Greater New York (without the city of New York) 21 32.81%
the San Francisco Bay Area (without the city of San Francisco) 43 67.19%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-16-2017, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,479 posts, read 7,717,281 times
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Greater New York (minus the city of New York) versus the San Francisco Bay Area (minus the city of San Francisco)?

I personally hold the belief that the San Francisco Bay Area is the second best place in the United States after Greater New York and I've stated as such on numerous occasions. I think this comparison is interesting, take out the principle city propers that anchor both areas out of the equation and compare everything else. My personal belief is that the San Francisco Bay Area (without San Francisco city) is better than Greater New York (without the city of New York) in a variety of ways. Really what pushes Greater New York ahead of the San Francisco Bay Area is the city of New York itself when compared to the city of San Francisco. That is a massive gap but that gap goes in reverse when you take each respective city out of the equation and then just compare the metropolises and what's left.

My opinion is with secondary sister cities like San Jose and Oakland and the host of satellite cities like Palo Alto, Walnut Creek, and the like to go along with suburbs like Petaluma, Santa Cruz, Sausalito and countryside like Napa, Marin, or Sonoma that the San Francisco Bay Area is far too hard to top for anywhere, including Greater New York. What makes Greater New York great is the city of New York, its secondary cities like Jersey City or New Haven or Stamford or White Plains and whatnot are admirable but not really up to par with the ones in the San Francisco Bay Area. Not to mention the climatic, outdoor recreational, and topographical advantages of the Bay Area. However, Greater New York is also a full service metropolitan area too, when you think about, it has nearly everything going for it and to offer. So I think an argument at the very minimum actually could be made. I'd like the hear these arguments for either place though.

I think it is an interesting comparison. Would like to hear from others on their thoughts. Just so we're clear, this comparison doesn't include the city of New York or the city of San Francisco, this is a comparison of everywhere else in each of their respective CSAs against the other.


- Location

- Climate

- Nightlife

- Public transport

- Liveliness

- More built up urbanity

- Scenery

- Food scene

- Quality of life and standard of living

- Job market

- Cultural Institutions and Performing Arts

- Airports

- Cosmopolitan feel / Diversity

Which one would you pick?

Which one is better? Why? What pushes one ahead of the other? Which would you pick to live in given the parameters of the comparison?
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
1,951 posts, read 1,067,960 times
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Location - Bay

Climate - Bay

Nightlife - NY

Transit - NY even though the transit in the entire Tri-State area only exists for NYC

Liveliness - not sure

More built up - NY. Even the surrounding areas outside of the city are the most built up areas of the country. But this is mostly spillover from NYC.

Scenery - Bay

Food scene - I'm gonna say Bay Area

Quality of life - both are expensive, but without NYC I think NY would be a lot cheaper.

Job Market - Bay Area easily

Cultural institutions + performing arts - Bay Area

Airports - Bay Area since it keeps all its airports. NY loses 2/3 major airports. LGA and JFK are in NYC city limits. We're just left with Newark but we lose a lot of necessary transit to get there.

Cosmopolitan feel - Bay because Silicon Valley.

Which would I pick? - Bay Area.

I can't imagine the rest of the NYC area without NYC. Everything in the Tri-State area pretty much revolves around NYC. We have a much more centralized core than the Bay Area. SF is the premiere city in the Bay but is still a relatively small city. The Bay Area is much more decentralized so the other cities in the Bay Area don't rely as much on SF like the secondary cities to NYC do.

if you take out NYC you pretty much kill the whole area IMO.
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:47 PM
 
52,659 posts, read 75,502,369 times
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You need to to take Oakland and if it is included, San Jose out as well. Might as well make it minus all principle cities.

I also think people are underestimating the cultural diversity in NE NJ and even parts of the NY counties outside of NYC. Same for scenery in the northern portion of the NYC metro and the beaches on Long Island and NJ.
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Old 03-16-2017, 08:11 PM
 
52,659 posts, read 75,502,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiesinUSA View Post
Why would he take out those cities? By your logic, might as well remove Newark and jersey city.
Both of those cities aren't viewed as primary cities in the NYC metro the same way Oakland and San Jose are viewed in their Bay Area metros. So, it isn't necessarily the same thing.

Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, Vallejo, Fairfield and Hayward are viewed as being primary cities in the Bay Area as well. Take a look at the official names of the Bay Area metros to get an idea of what I am referring to.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-16-2017 at 08:25 PM..
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Old 03-16-2017, 08:48 PM
 
52,659 posts, read 75,502,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiesinUSA View Post
You got to be kidding me

The largest city you named, Fremont, is only roughly 225,000, and is essentially a big ass suburb. The rest are all less than 150,000 residents. These are in no way "primary cities", and to suggest that is incredibly laughable. Jersey City and Newark contribute entirely much more to the economy, population, and overall culture of the NYC metro than the 3 former cities you mention do to the Bay Area. Shoot, no one outside of the west coast even knows Sunnyvale or Fremont even exist.

Even San Jose, though a large city, is not a primary city. It faces drastic depopulation in daytime commuting as residents head to San Francisco for work.
No, look at the official names of Bay Area metro areas. That is what I'm referring to. Not what xyz city contributes or what people supposedly know or don't know.

Forget Fremont, as I corrected myself later in that post.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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This is a poll clearly meant to favor the decentralized Bay, but even with the loss of NYC, I think Greater New York still hits harder than most people realize. We're still looking at a region of 11.5 to 14.5 million people, more than the Bay Area even with San Francisco. That still offers plenty in terms of liveliness, nightlife, job market, cosmopolitan feel, cultural institutions, etc. That's still two Ivy League schools being left, still some of the most diverse neighborhoods on Earth being left, still 4 pro sports teams being left, still the most intricate transit infrastructure in the United States being left, and still some great scenery being left (the Palisades, Long Island beaches, etc).

I don't think this is a particularly fair comparison, taking a major city out of a centralized metro versus taking out a major city out of a far more decentralized metro, even if it is New York. It's still too apples and oranges. I think Greater Los Angeles minus Los Angeles would work far better as a comparison point for the Bay without San Francisco, just as Chicagoland without Chicago would be an unfair comparison.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:02 AM
 
52,659 posts, read 75,502,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qworldorder View Post
This is a poll clearly meant to favor the decentralized Bay, but even with the loss of NYC, I think Greater New York still hits harder than most people realize. We're still looking at a region of 11.5 to 14.5 million people, more than the Bay Area even with San Francisco. That still offers plenty in terms of liveliness, nightlife, job market, cosmopolitan feel, cultural institutions, etc. That's still two Ivy League schools being left, still some of the most diverse neighborhoods on Earth being left, still 4 pro sports teams being left, still the most intricate transit infrastructure in the United States being left, and still some great scenery being left (the Palisades, Long Island beaches, etc).

I don't think this is a particularly fair comparison, taking a major city out of a centralized metro versus taking out a major city out of a far more decentralized metro, even if it is New York. It's still too apples and oranges. I think Greater Los Angeles minus Los Angeles would work far better as a comparison point for the Bay without San Francisco, just as Chicagoland without Chicago would be an unfair comparison.
I have to wait to rep you, but this right here.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:09 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,136 posts, read 21,745,742 times
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How does Long Island fit into all of this since it's really cut off from the rest of the CSA with NYC taken out? Maybe take Manhattan alone out instead of all of NYC?

I think on most counts, a SF-less Bay Area is generally more appealing than a NYC-less Tri-State area on most counts except for nightlife, transit, and urbanity. I'd probably pick the Bay Area because the job market gets significantly worse in the Tri-State area without NYC.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-17-2017 at 09:27 AM..
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:13 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,671 posts, read 18,223,008 times
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Removing New York City from the Tri-state area is like removing the sun from the solar system. lol

Heck, ALL of America becomes something less if you take out New York City.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
15,832 posts, read 5,404,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qworldorder View Post
This is a poll clearly meant to favor the decentralized Bay, but even with the loss of NYC, I think Greater New York still hits harder than most people realize. We're still looking at a region of 11.5 to 14.5 million people, more than the Bay Area even with San Francisco. That still offers plenty in terms of liveliness, nightlife, job market, cosmopolitan feel, cultural institutions, etc. That's still two Ivy League schools being left, still some of the most diverse neighborhoods on Earth being left, still 4 pro sports teams being left, still the most intricate transit infrastructure in the United States being left, and still some great scenery being left (the Palisades, Long Island beaches, etc).

I don't think this is a particularly fair comparison, taking a major city out of a centralized metro versus taking out a major city out of a far more decentralized metro, even if it is New York. It's still too apples and oranges. I think Greater Los Angeles minus Los Angeles would work far better as a comparison point for the Bay without San Francisco, just as Chicagoland without Chicago would be an unfair comparison.
Two Ivy League schools? I thought Columbia was the only Ivy League in Greater NYC. Number 2 can't be Princeton, that is closer to Philadelphia than it is to NYC
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