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Old 08-30-2017, 01:48 PM
 
Location: East Side, Indianapolis
191 posts, read 151,947 times
Reputation: 269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
The Indiana KKK was basically a carryover from the Indiana White Caps, which was a vigilante movement which started in Indiana during the 1830's. In reality the Indiana KKK was established in 1915 and was disbanded in Indiana nearly a century after the conviction of D.C. Stephenson in 1925. For reference, during that same period the KKK was just as active in New Jersey, Los Angles and the entire South. Heck there was once a time when Wall Street was a slave market before it was a financial center. In addition, slaves were once actively trade just blocks away from the White House.

As a gentle reminder, Missouri entered the Union as a slave state. After the Civil War Missouri enacted Black Codes as did all the former slave states. Let's not pretend was if the Klan wasn't active in Missouri. Also to this very date Missouri holds the distinction of being the first and only state which the NAACP has issued a travel advisory alerting African American to be vigilant when visiting or traveling through the state. Peter, once again you are being intellectually dishonest by pretending as if what occurred in Indiana was some sort of an anonymity.
Even considering all of that history (thank you for clarifying that point for Peter...I was right, his post was completely off-base and unhinged as expected), it doesn't change the fact that Indianapolis is one of the least segregated cities in the northern United States.
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:53 PM
 
Location: East Side, Indianapolis
191 posts, read 151,947 times
Reputation: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPonteKC View Post
Yeah, I won't disagree with your assessment of KC's lite-rapid bus system, or with what IndyGo at least plans to do. That said, I still don't think it's more comprehensive. I think the red line will be better executed, and closer to being true BRT (though not quite), but not more comprehensive...even the when the blue line starts service. By the time it's implemented KC will have 3 parallel express lines spaced 1 mile apart running the entire length of the urban core, which as you know is only about 5 miles wide. That puts about 1/4 people in KC within a 10 minute walk of a 10-minute headway bus route.
I think the development patterns of the two cities are different enough that it's pretty hard to for Indianapolis to replicate something like that. We wouldn't benefit from lines running parallel to each other here...we need a more radial layout, which makes comparing the two systems pretty difficult. Sounds like KC has a great plan though. Hopefully it's all done sooner rather than later...these kinds of things never seem to move along fast enough!
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Old 08-30-2017, 03:57 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,151,940 times
Reputation: 1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralCarmel View Post
I think the development patterns of the two cities are different enough that it's pretty hard to for Indianapolis to replicate something like that. We wouldn't benefit from lines running parallel to each other here...we need a more radial layout
Yeah, I'm obviously not as familiar with Indy's layout (though I have a general knowledge from a couple visits). I'm sure the transit planners there are, though, and the IndyGo plan looks very good. The Red Line roll-out is certainly a step up from our MAX lines in terms of form and amenities.
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:19 PM
 
6,299 posts, read 13,196,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralCarmel View Post
I think the development patterns of the two cities are different enough that it's pretty hard to for Indianapolis to replicate something like that. We wouldn't benefit from lines running parallel to each other here...we need a more radial layout, which makes comparing the two systems pretty difficult. Sounds like KC has a great plan though. Hopefully it's all done sooner rather than later...these kinds of things never seem to move along fast enough!
BRT is not what Indy needs.

Indy is a city set up perfectly for light rail! Also, with Indy's cultural trail and density of convention center and the sort of "disneyland" convention experience with the chains, etc, a streetcar line running north-south, and east west would do wonders for it! No longer would I be coming on here complaining of neighborhoods 3 miles from downtown.

Do you honestly think BRT will do for this area 2-5 or 6 miles from downtown what a streetcar or light rail line would do?

I think Indy could support light rail from the Airport, into Speedway building into much more than main street which is a few shops which have opened up, into downtown, and on up to Carmel...the Meridian street corridor is the natural route, as this was the history anyways. What you would see is rapid development along north Meridian, creating a beautiful and continuous corridor up to the north side.
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Old 08-30-2017, 11:35 PM
 
Location: San Diego
1,760 posts, read 2,940,754 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
BRT is not what Indy needs.

Indy is a city set up perfectly for light rail! Also, with Indy's cultural trail and density of convention center and the sort of "disneyland" convention experience with the chains, etc, a streetcar line running north-south, and east west would do wonders for it! No longer would I be coming on here complaining of neighborhoods 3 miles from downtown.

Do you honestly think BRT will do for this area 2-5 or 6 miles from downtown what a streetcar or light rail line would do?

I think Indy could support light rail from the Airport, into Speedway building into much more than main street which is a few shops which have opened up, into downtown, and on up to Carmel...the Meridian street corridor is the natural route, as this was the history anyways. What you would see is rapid development along north Meridian, creating a beautiful and continuous corridor up to the north side.
I agree that light rail and streetcars would be better, but unfortunately the State of Indiana banned that. In defense of the State (I think that's the first time I've said that), I actually do think BRT will be almost as beneficial as LRT, at least if IndyGo follows through with their current plans. It seems like they actually are building a cohesive BRT system, minus the Southside, for now. In defense of IndyGo's plans, the Southside section of the Red Line isn't necessarily conducive to rapid transit. It's the area of the city that doesn't really have a reason to justify rapid transit service. That's why that section of the Red Line is more reminiscent of KC's system overall.
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Old 08-30-2017, 11:50 PM
 
6,299 posts, read 13,196,957 times
Reputation: 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by wh15395 View Post
I agree that light rail and streetcars would be better, but unfortunately the State of Indiana banned that. In defense of the State (I think that's the first time I've said that), I actually do think BRT will be almost as beneficial as LRT, at least if IndyGo follows through with their current plans. It seems like they actually are building a cohesive BRT system, minus the Southside, for now. In defense of IndyGo's plans, the Southside section of the Red Line isn't necessarily conducive to rapid transit. It's the area of the city that doesn't really have a reason to justify rapid transit service. That's why that section of the Red Line is more reminiscent of KC's system overall.
The states in middle America have such backwards thinking. Its so frustrating and as much as people think I am boosterish, the biggest thing I cannot stand about "flyover country", with the exception of Chicago, is this mindset. As dominant as Indy is in Indiana, there are still some rural folks who dominate and think small about transit.

If you haven't been to KC lately, Google Fiber and the streetcar line are doing wonders for it....

Economic Development | KC Streetcar Fuels Growth in Kansas City

If you are from Indy and have not been to KC lately (I am pretty sure none of you have), then you need to check out the streetcar. When KC gets the southern extension, this is when it will truly separate from Indy.Before early this year, my last visit to KC was years ago during my trek across urban America. I was not impressed in the least with KC outside the Plaza. Now the city has great activity in many urban nodes, and the streetcar has focused it!


And as much as Indy is hyped as a "tech city," it will never be a tech magnet without Google Fiber.

Google Fiber is the interstate system of the 21st century. Indy has been ranked in some rankings in, or close, to top 25 for tech, but some of that is based on nefarious data often trumped by local Indy boosters. Indy is not a bad tech city by any means, in fact it is pretty good for middle America, but I really think KC has the edge over the next 10 years here with Google Fiber. Incidentally, I will be surprised if Indy and Columbus are not in the next wave of Fiber cities as it spreads from the south and the north, but Google has currently halted plans for more cities.

https://fiber.google.com/about/
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:31 AM
 
1,480 posts, read 1,291,399 times
Reputation: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
The states in middle America have such backwards thinking. Its so frustrating and as much as people think I am boosterish, the biggest thing I cannot stand about "flyover country", with the exception of Chicago, is this mindset. As dominant as Indy is in Indiana, there are still some rural folks who dominate and think small about transit.

If you haven't been to KC lately, Google Fiber and the streetcar line are doing wonders for it....

Economic Development | KC Streetcar Fuels Growth in Kansas City

If you are from Indy and have not been to KC lately (I am pretty sure none of you have), then you need to check out the streetcar. When KC gets the southern extension, this is when it will truly separate from Indy.Before early this year, my last visit to KC was years ago during my trek across urban America. I was not impressed in the least with KC outside the Plaza. Now the city has great activity in many urban nodes, and the streetcar has focused it!


And as much as Indy is hyped as a "tech city," it will never be a tech magnet without Google Fiber.

Google Fiber is the interstate system of the 21st century. Indy has been ranked in some rankings in, or close, to top 25 for tech, but some of that is based on nefarious data often trumped by local Indy boosters. Indy is not a bad tech city by any means, in fact it is pretty good for middle America, but I really think KC has the edge over the next 10 years here with Google Fiber. Incidentally, I will be surprised if Indy and Columbus are not in the next wave of Fiber cities as it spreads from the south and the north, but Google has currently halted plans for more cities.

https://fiber.google.com/about/
There is no questioning the Indy is an emerging tech market in the United States. It has the schools and infrastructure to support it. Indy has one of the largest youth CoderDojo youth programs in the nation. There are 127 CoderDoJo locations in the United States. Thirty-nine are in Indiana (15 of which are in Indy).

https://coderdojo.com/

Furthermore, Purdue University has successfully launched the Purdue Polytechnic High School in Indianapolis is reinventing high school to help students thrive and gain valuable STEM knowledge and skills. Lastly what you failed to mention is that Indy was ranked #5 in tech job creation by several reputable magazine such as Forbes (that shoots holes in your nefarious dat often trumped by local Indy boosters claims).

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/58ca...reating-the-m/

Personally I fail to see what advantage Google Fiber has in this entire debate. Google Fiber nationwide expansion has completely stalled. Google fiber has stopped expanding in the very cities where it exist. To date, Google Fiber has around 68,715 television subscribers and an estimated 453,000 broadband customers. AT&T fiber (which is in Indianapolis) has around 2 million subscribers. Verizon Fios has around 5 million subscribers. Peter to be perfectly honest with you, Google Fiber is a minor player in the FTTP market. Once again you are fabricating a storyline which is faulty at best and can be easily fact checked. Dude give it a rest ... please.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,531,221 times
Reputation: 5420
I'm not an expert in the super high speed internet stuff, mainly because we don't have google fiber here in the DC area. I currently have Verizon Fios which seems good enough. However, isn't google fiber considerably faster than the other guys which is why it was such a big deal? I have heard that google fiber has been pulling back on expanding in the KC area and other cities.
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:52 PM
 
Location: East Side, Indianapolis
191 posts, read 151,947 times
Reputation: 269
Alphabet has all but killed off Google Fiber. It is an unprofitable nightmare for the parent company, and no longer holds the extreme competitive advantage it once did. Cities that already have it are no longer getting any expansion, and cities that were announced to get it but haven't yet, won't be getting it. Talk to anyone who's a big player in tech and they'll tell you that Google Fiber is dying on the vine.

A lack of Google Fiber certainly didn't hold a company like Salesforce back from making massive investments in the city and slapping its name across our tallest building. It's just not a factor, one way or the other. Tech is much more interested in places that offer low COL and a relatively deep talent pool. In this regard, Indy really benefits from having Purdue just up the road, as well as IUPUI downtown. Purdue is cranking out some of the most talented data scientists in the country these days.
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:53 PM
 
1,480 posts, read 1,291,399 times
Reputation: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
I'm not an expert in the super high speed internet stuff, mainly because we don't have google fiber here in the DC area. I currently have Verizon Fios which seems good enough. However, isn't google fiber considerably faster than the other guys which is why it was such a big deal? I have heard that google fiber has been pulling back on expanding in the KC area and other cities.
Both AT&T fiber and Google fiber offer 1 Gig fiber internet. Verizon FIOS is slightly slower at 940 Mbps download and 880 Mbps upload.
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