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Old 06-21-2017, 10:15 AM
 
1,480 posts, read 1,289,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Dyadic, I don't know man. If you knew me, you would know I'm not shy about pointing out KC's faults. Not in the least.

But you are really selling KC short and putting Indy on this ridiculous pedestal as if it were Denver or Seattle or something.

I think KC has more to do for tourists and locals. I'm not backing down from that. I would even have a difficult time believing that Indy gets more tourist than KC. It might get more conventions, but why would people choose Indy over Cincy, Chicago, St Louis etc, heck even Louisville is pretty equal to Indy. KC amusement parks and MLB team alone probably draw more actual tourists to the city than Indy does. KC's museums, theater venues etc are also a notch above Indy.

And KC just feels totally different than Indy. One you leave the core of Downtown Indy, the city leaves a LOT to be desired and I'm talking just blocks from the core, not miles.

I don't get these numbers you are throwing around. If the city has truly spent tens of billions on downtown, then you better have a subway system or something to show for it.

Indy is not growing that much faster than KC. They are nearly identical when it comes to economic growth relatively speaking and KC has been a larger, more important city than Indy for some time and it has the amenities to prove it.

And it has been shown in this thread that KC has been doing very well lately for both downtown apartments and metro growth:

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascit...on-report.html
I'm not putting Indy on a pedestal and I didn't exaggerate a claim. You just have a difficult time coming to grips with my post. Indy had over 27,000 tourist and $4.5 billion is tourism revenue.

Visit Indy reports record year for Indianapolis tourism

Kansas City had 24,000 tourist and $3.1 billion in revenue.

Visit Indy reports record year for Indianapolis tourism

Indianapolis GDP is 134,081 compared to Kansas City's 125,618. This about an $8.5 billion difference. Indy's economy has been larger and strong for quite some time. And despite how you trying to marginalize the difference it is it is growing faster. At the current growth rate Indy will surpass Pittsburgh GDP.

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/reg..._metro0916.pdf

Once again I'm not putting Indy on a pedestal. I just called out a particular poster on his grossly embellished claim on something he couldn't provide the support.
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Clifton, Cincinnati
69 posts, read 39,491 times
Reputation: 125
I find it a little hypocritical that KC posters are saying Indy posters are the ones who are cherry picking, but I have seen countless posts in this thread that have the same exact pictures and articles posted here about KC as I do comparing KC to Austin, for example. If you're not KC then you're cherry picking data and stats, but I have seen this mostly from the KC boosters. Interesting.
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Old 06-21-2017, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,513,697 times
Reputation: 5415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
I'm not putting Indy on a pedestal and I didn't exaggerate a claim. You just have a difficult time coming to grips with my post. Indy had over 27,000 tourist and $4.5 billion is tourism revenue.

Visit Indy reports record year for Indianapolis tourism

Kansas City had 24,000 tourist and $3.1 billion in revenue.

Visit Indy reports record year for Indianapolis tourism

Indianapolis GDP is 134,081 compared to Kansas City's 125,618. This about an $8.5 billion difference. Indy's economy has been larger and strong for quite some time. And despite how you trying to marginalize the difference it is it is growing faster. At the current growth rate Indy will surpass Pittsburgh GDP.

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/reg..._metro0916.pdf

Once again I'm not putting Indy on a pedestal. I just called out a particular poster on his grossly embellished claim on something he couldn't provide the support.
All I'm saying is that I prefer KC. I prefer MLB over NBA, I liked having Worlds of Fun right there. Don't have to drive to St Louis to go to Six Flags. The performing arts center, union station, plaza, etc. The urban core of KC is actually quite satisfying for me, while Indy's built environment and attractions still seem a tier below KC. That doesn't mean Indy is a bad city and I do understand that Indy is growing slightly faster than KC, but it’s still a pretty slow growth city.

I don’t think either city is blowing the other away in any way. Both are building a lot of urban housing. The downtown areas are probably similar. I think they both have about 25-30k living downtown now and both are expected to see 40k living downtown soon. But I don’t think Indy has as much going on in urban areas outside of downtown. KC’s plaza, Westport and Midtown areas are seeing a lot of new apartments as well.

While KC is not a top 20 metro it once was, it’s still growing at a modest clip and constantly improving. It looks very likely the city will expand the streetcars, build a new airport terminal and urban re-development seems to be just getting started. KC is not going anywhere and while it may be passed by a few cities like Indy in GDP or even population, KC will always be an interesting and changing place with modest growth and a lot to offer. It has a brighter future than St Louis for example and for the record, I consider St Louis a tier above KC even though it's growing much slower and KC will likely eventually pass it in population and GDP. But StL will always be a larger, more urban city in my mind.

At the end of the day, I think Indy has come a long way and has closed the gap they once had with KC. The cities are generally piers and both have positives and negatives about them.
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Old 06-22-2017, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
4,283 posts, read 3,347,532 times
Reputation: 3001
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
All I'm saying is that I prefer KC. I prefer MLB over NBA, I liked having Worlds of Fun right there. Don't have to drive to St Louis to go to Six Flags. The performing arts center, union station, plaza, etc. The urban core of KC is actually quite satisfying for me, while Indy's built environment and attractions still seem a tier below KC. That doesn't mean Indy is a bad city and I do understand that Indy is growing slightly faster than KC, but it’s still a pretty slow growth city.

I don’t think either city is blowing the other away in any way. Both are building a lot of urban housing. The downtown areas are probably similar. I think they both have about 25-30k living downtown now and both are expected to see 40k living downtown soon. But I don’t think Indy has as much going on in urban areas outside of downtown. KC’s plaza, Westport and Midtown areas are seeing a lot of new apartments as well.

While KC is not a top 20 metro it once was, it’s still growing at a modest clip and constantly improving. It looks very likely the city will expand the streetcars, build a new airport terminal and urban re-development seems to be just getting started. KC is not going anywhere and while it may be passed by a few cities like Indy in GDP or even population, KC will always be an interesting and changing place with modest growth and a lot to offer. It has a brighter future than St Louis for example and for the record, I consider St Louis a tier above KC even though it's growing much slower and KC will likely eventually pass it in population and GDP. But StL will always be a larger, more urban city in my mind.

At the end of the day, I think Indy has come a long way and has closed the gap they once had with KC. The cities are generally piers and both have positives and negatives about them.
What do you feel are the factors contributing to Indianapolis growing faster, and also having a larger economy? Kansas City seemed to be better in many aspects than Indianapolis, so it is interesting that Indianapolis beats it there.
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,513,697 times
Reputation: 5415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakeesha View Post
What do you feel are the factors contributing to Indianapolis growing faster, and also having a larger economy? Kansas City seemed to be better in many aspects than Indianapolis, so it is interesting that Indianapolis beats it there.
The same reasons that Denver, MSP, etc tend to do better.

1. Indy is the largest city and the capital of the state. It's in the state's best interest for Indianapolis to do well. Metro KC on the Missouri side has only half the population and about 1/3 of the economic activity of metro St Louis on the Missouri side. While only 40% of the population of KC is in Kansas, it's closer to half the economy because so many businesses and wealthy residents have migrated to the KS side over the past 40 years. So Missouri generally ignores KC and StL gets most of the attention even though metro StL is not growing much at all.

2. Kansas uses KCMO as nothing more than a place to pick low fruit from. Kansas has done nothing but poach and freeload off KCMO for decades. The Kansas side has grown, but nearly entirely at the expense of the MO side. This is a net loss situation for both sides of the metro but has been particularly devastating to downtown KCMO. Topeka politicians have no interest in working with KCMO. Because nobody wants to move to Kansas from other states, the state preys off the existing jobs along its border in KCMO. So KCMO basically is ignored by the state it's in and has to fight an economic battle with the state half of its metro is in. It's really messed up.

Sometimes I wonder if all of metro kc were in Kansas or if StL did not exist, KC would probably being a much larger metro today, but then if you look at urban areas in Kansas (KCK, Topeka, Wichita etc), maybe not. Kansas just has no ability to have a thriving urban area and the entire state basically has one economically vibrant county, Johnson County, the county that feeds off of KCMO.

Those are two big reasons. KCMO is basically so busy just trying to fend off Kansas, that they can't compete with other metros and with half the metro in another state, you don't have the entire metro caring that KCMO thrives. Overland Park has zero interest in downtown KCMO doing well. When KCMO is not thriving, the metro suffers, no matter how much development is happening in suburban Kansas. it's no coincidence that metro KC has seen some of its best economic stats lately as KCMO has been thriving while the Kansas side has drastically slowed. It only proves that KCMO is actually bringing new jobs and new residents to the metro rather than just moving them from one side of state line to the other.

As far as GDP etc, I wonder if Indy is larger because they have so much more industrial space. All those distribution centers may be a main reason. I'm pretty sure KC has considerably more office space, probably more actual jobs etc, so there has to be something that is pushing Indy past KC there.
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:48 AM
 
1,480 posts, read 1,289,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakeesha View Post
What do you feel are the factors contributing to Indianapolis growing faster, and also having a larger economy? Kansas City seemed to be better in many aspects than Indianapolis, so it is interesting that Indianapolis beats it there.
Indy has the more diversified economy. The city is one the world's premier sports tourism markets. It is a major life science markets in the nation. Indianapolis is*5th nationally for employment in Drugs and Pharmaceuticals and 2nd in large MSAs (total private employment greater than 250,000) in specialized employment concentration. It ranks 2nd in the U.S. for employment in Agricultural Feedstock and Chemicals and 3rd in large MSAs for concentration of employment;*and*increased its position to 10th*in Bioscience-Related Distribution since 2012. Hosts one of the largest medical centers in the nation. In has 4 level 1 trauma centers. It's tech market growth is top 5 nationally. It home of one of two Indiana & Purdue core campuses which are two top research universities.

Indy is also a major logistic and distribution center. It is one of the largest cargo centers in the United States, and is also home to the world's second-largest distribution logistics operator. As a result of its cargo capabilities, the airport generates an average of more than $4.5 billion for the area's economy.

It is centrally located of the largest 100 cities in the United States, Indianapolis is within 650 miles of 55 percent of all Americans, or more than 50 million households. The city is served by four interstate highways, six railroads, an international airport, and a foreign trade zone. Three ports serve the entire state and are all within a three hour drive of Indianapolis.

The hub of an extensive rail network, Indianapolis has a total of 26 rail corridors in operation, and five key freight facilities. CSX and Norfolk Southern are the two Class 1 operations, and the four shortlines consist of Indiana Railroad Co., Indiana Southern, Louisville & Indiana Rail, and Central Railroad of Indiana.
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
4,283 posts, read 3,347,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
Indy has the more diversified economy. The city is one the world's premier sports tourism markets. It is a major life science markets in the nation. Indianapolis is*5th nationally for employment in Drugs and Pharmaceuticals and 2nd in large MSAs (total private employment greater than 250,000) in specialized employment concentration. It ranks 2nd in the U.S. for employment in Agricultural Feedstock and Chemicals and 3rd in large MSAs for concentration of employment;*and*increased its position to 10th*in Bioscience-Related Distribution since 2012. Hosts one of the largest medical centers in the nation. In has 4 level 1 trauma centers. It's tech market growth is top 5 nationally. It home of one of two Indiana & Purdue core campuses which are two top research universities.

Indy is also a major logistic and distribution center. It is one of the largest cargo centers in the United States, and is also home to the world's second-largest distribution logistics operator. As a result of its cargo capabilities, the airport generates an average of more than $4.5 billion for the area's economy.

It is centrally located of the largest 100 cities in the United States, Indianapolis is within 650 miles of 55 percent of all Americans, or more than 50 million households. The city is served by four interstate highways, six railroads, an international airport, and a foreign trade zone. Three ports serve the entire state and are all within a three hour drive of Indianapolis.

The hub of an extensive rail network, Indianapolis has a total of 26 rail corridors in operation, and five key freight facilities. CSX and Norfolk Southern are the two Class 1 operations, and the four shortlines consist of Indiana Railroad Co., Indiana Southern, Louisville & Indiana Rail, and Central Railroad of Indiana.
That is interesting information. I guess being the lone wolf in the state helps its reputation. It appeared to be where a lot of investment is happening.
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Old 06-23-2017, 04:03 PM
 
1,480 posts, read 1,289,508 times
Reputation: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakeesha View Post
That is interesting information. I guess being the lone wolf in the state helps its reputation. It appeared to be where a lot of investment is happening.
I imagine the same can be said about Minneapolis, Atlanta, Denver, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Las Vegas and a host of other cities.
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
4,283 posts, read 3,347,532 times
Reputation: 3001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyadic View Post
I imagine the same can be said about Minneapolis, Atlanta, Denver, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Las Vegas and a host of other cities.
I think so. The urban trail is something I would like to see repeated in my hometown. I would also add Chicago to the lone wolf category. I have been to other cities in Indiana, but none of them were growing like Indianapolis. I would add that the large amount of surface parking lots/ abandoned buildings in the city is actually an advantage, as the city has a lot of infill potential. Kansas City has a lot of redevelopment/renovation potential.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,259 posts, read 13,541,972 times
Reputation: 5812
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
The same reasons that Denver, MSP, etc tend to do better.

1. Indy is the largest city and the capital of the state. It's in the state's best interest for Indianapolis to do well. Metro KC on the Missouri side has only half the population and about 1/3 of the economic activity of metro St Louis on the Missouri side. While only 40% of the population of KC is in Kansas, it's closer to half the economy because so many businesses and wealthy residents have migrated to the KS side over the past 40 years. So Missouri generally ignores KC and StL gets most of the attention even though metro StL is not growing much at all.

2. Kansas uses KCMO as nothing more than a place to pick low fruit from. Kansas has done nothing but poach and freeload off KCMO for decades. The Kansas side has grown, but nearly entirely at the expense of the MO side. This is a net loss situation for both sides of the metro but has been particularly devastating to downtown KCMO. Topeka politicians have no interest in working with KCMO. Because nobody wants to move to Kansas from other states, the state preys off the existing jobs along its border in KCMO. So KCMO basically is ignored by the state it's in and has to fight an economic battle with the state half of its metro is in. It's really messed up.
This is a silly argument. For starters, Indianapolis succeeds in spite of the fact it is in Indiana, not because of it. Fishers and Carmel have been picking "low hanging" from Indianapolis for years. Just because they are in the same state doesn't make it less nefarious. The Kansas/Missouri thing is a red herring. There are many many many other metro areas that span multiple states, with competition between the states. KCMO isn't special in that regard.
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