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View Poll Results: Which group is comparatively closer in parity?
Washington D.C. vs Dallas vs Houston 7 33.33%
Ottawa vs Calgary vs Edmonton 12 57.14%
Tie game 2 9.52%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-28-2017, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,504 posts, read 2,730,143 times
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In terms of parity within, which grouping is closer: Washington D.C. vs Dallas vs Houston for the United States, or Calgary vs Edmonton vs Ottawa for Canada?

To elaborate, all six of these cities are not among the 1,2,3 in their respective nations, in terms of population and GDP. That would unquestionably be New York, Los Angeles and Chicago for the United States, and Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver for Canada.

But they do share many similarities. All six cities can make a reasonable case for being at least tied as the fourth city of their nation, depending on what metrics are highlighted and arguments presented. Both groupings include a capital city with perhaps disproportionate influence, in Washington and Ottawa. And both pairings contain two metro areas that are within the same state/province, have a bitter rivalry and that are nearly on par with one another in population/GDP: Dallas and Houston in Texas, and Calgary and Edmonton in Alberta.

So which grouping is closer, in terms of ranking the cities within: Washington vs Dallas vs Houston? Or Ottawa vs Calgary vs Edmonton? I've included the most recently available hard statistics below, but keep in mind things like soft power and influence. Feel free to add on statistics that I've missed that you feel pertinent to the conversation. Also, we're comparing the groupings and how close the cities stack up within, not between groupings; obviously, the United States destroys the Canadian grouping. And, go!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_Areas

2016 Population (MSA):

4 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX Metropolitan Statistical Area 7,233,323
5 Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX Metropolitan Statistical Area 6,772,470
6 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV Metropolitan Statistical Area 6,131,977

2016 City Proper:

Dallas 1,317,929
Houston 2,303,482
Washington D.C. 681,170

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ions_in_Canada

2016 Population (CMA):

4 Calgary Alberta CMA 1,392,609
5 Ottawa–Gatineau Ontario/Quebec CMA 1,323,783
6 Edmonton Alberta CMA 1,321,426 1,159,869

2016 City Proper:

Calgary 1,239,220
Ottawa 934,243
Edmonton 932,546

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/reg..._metro0916.pdf

2015 GDP (MSA, in millions):

Dallas $485,683
Houston $503,311
Washington $491,042

Gross domestic product of large census metropolitan areas, 2009 and 2013 (in current dollars)

2013 GDP (CMA, millions):

Calgary $100,838
Edmonton $98,194
Ottawa-Gatineau $71,340

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._championships
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._Cup_champions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLS_Cup

Sports championships (Big 5, NFL=CFL, NHL, NBA, MLB, MLS):

Dallas 8
Houston 6
Washington 11

Calgary 8
Edmonton 19
Ottawa *10 (21 if old Ottawa Senators are included)

Last edited by qworldorder; 06-28-2017 at 02:15 PM..
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Old 06-28-2017, 07:19 PM
 
1,518 posts, read 985,845 times
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I don't know if I consider sports championships very important. Besides that, the three Canadian metros are much more compatible to each other than the three US metros. I just don't understand why Ottawa has such a small economy, even compared to its Canadian peers, but the populations are so close.

Also, I don't think DFW or Houston are very close to being number four, or on par with DC. DC has a much larger urban population, enough for its status as the capital city to make a difference.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
I don't know if I consider sports championships very important. Besides that, the three Canadian metros are much more compatible to each other than the three US metros. I just don't understand why Ottawa has such a small economy, even compared to its Canadian peers, but the populations are so close.

Also, I don't think DFW or Houston are very close to being number four, or on par with DC. DC has a much larger urban population, enough for its status as the capital city to make a difference.
But sports championships are important, as they enhance a city's profile, which in turn spurs investment, immigration and development. LeBron James is worth at least $500 million to the city of Cleveland; 3 straight NBA Finals appearances and one win has caused a renaissance of sorts in Cleveland, from the Republican National Convention to a renovation of Quicken Loans arena. Having an excellent sports team or teams is more than just a matter of civic pride.

And why would DC's urban population solely boost it over Dallas and Houston? Of the 10 largest MSAs, 5 have traditionally urban city cores and 5 do not. Urbanity is a lot less important for success in the American model than elsewhere around the globe. DC still has a smaller GDP than Houston, and possibly Dallas in 2017. If anything, I think the only thing that definitively boosts DC over Dallas and Houston, from an objective perspective, is being the seat of government of the world's most powerful nation. It certainly doesn't win on raw economic output and population size (which can also be said of Ottawa).

Also, why wouldn't Dallas and Houston have a claim for fourth? They are fourth (Dallas) and fifth (Houston) in MSA population, and fourth (Houston) and fifth (Dallas) in GDP. They are the third (Houston) and fourth (Dallas) most diverse cities in the nation. They are also the fastest growing metropolitan areas in the country, with Houston first and Dallas second (DC is sixth). DC only gains a true edge when Baltimore, a separate metro, is included. The only metro that has a better claim for fourth is the Bay Area, but until the Census makes that area one MSA, you leave too much room for argument in having two MSAs. Even if we give the Bay the benefit of the doubt and give it fourth, we're still talking about 5-7.

This grouping is the closest in the entire country at the major city level. And by GDP, they're closer to each other than the Canadian metros.
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:28 PM
 
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I never mentioned urbanity. You don't seem to understand what urban population means.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
20,575 posts, read 25,637,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
I just don't understand why Ottawa has such a small economy, even compared to its Canadian peers, but the populations are so close.

.

It's not so much that Ottawa has a small economy, but that Edmonton and Calgary's are (or were) supercharged due to high oil and gas prices.


These numbers are from 2013, so they've likely come down a bit relative to Ottawa due to the plunge in oil and gas prices.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
I never mentioned urbanity. You don't seem to understand what urban population means.
Oh, please do enlighten. Are you referring to urban areas, the African American population, people who live in high rises, or something else?
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CityGuyForLife View Post
Oh, please do enlighten. Are you referring to urban areas, the African American population, people who live in high rises, or something else?
Any Google search of "Urban population" would be a good start. Urban is not the same as Urbanity and that shows from the search results. Anyway, DC's urban agglomerate (which I go by, since Urban Areas cut out some suburbs) is well ahead of DFW's.
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Old 06-30-2017, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,504 posts, read 2,730,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
Any Google search of "Urban population" would be a good start. Urban is not the same as Urbanity and that shows from the search results. Anyway, DC's urban agglomerate (which I go by, since Urban Areas cut out some suburbs) is well ahead of DFW's.
Not helpful in the least. All that does is bring up graphs and pictures of overpopulated Asian cities. I still don't see your point. And what do you mean by urban agglomerate (agglomeration)? Urban areas (which are what I do see when I google urban population) are the more reliable statistic, as they are not as inflated as statistics that include commuting numbers and theoretical interconnection. BosWash, for example, is an urban agglomeration, though it does not function as one area. See the Wiki article below to see how "agglomerations" can be a ridiculous metric.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_population

You may not agree with Dallas' and Houston's urban planning model, but by city proper, MSA and Urban Area, they are significantly larger in population than Washington. Washington only pulls ahead by including Baltimore, which is what makes this an interesting comparison. The Canadian metros are closer to each other in population by any metric, but the American metros are closer to each other in GDP by any metric.

Ottawa and Washington are also the most educated major cities in their respective countries, Calgary and Dallas harbor "white collar" reputations, and Edmonton and Houston are stereotyped as "blue collar" cities.

Moderator cut: Link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
National Household Survey: Is Ottawa Canada’s smartest city? | National Post
https://wallethub.com/edu/most-and-l...d-cities/6656/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other...mThqR#image=14

Last edited by Yac; 07-28-2017 at 06:47 AM..
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Old 06-30-2017, 06:03 PM
 
106 posts, read 57,986 times
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/ursb1g55zb...rldua.pdf?dl=0
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Old 07-02-2017, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Originally Posted by foobar2038 View Post
Going by urban area doesn't change much, regarding the population spread. The Canadian metros are still fairly close to each other, with Edmonton and Ottawa still about on par with another. Washington, not including Baltimore, is about a million behind Houston and 1.3 million behind Dallas.
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