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View Poll Results: Which would you prefer?
Louisville 13 10.57%
Richmond 25 20.33%
New Orleans 13 10.57%
Hartford 5 4.07%
Salt Lake 30 24.39%
Birmingham 7 5.69%
Buffalo 11 8.94%
Rochester 5 4.07%
Grand Rapids 6 4.88%
Tucson 8 6.50%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-07-2017, 07:21 PM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,051 posts, read 1,292,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Rochester has Upper and Lower Falls, Ontario State Park, Highland Park, and Cobbs Hill Park, Corbett's Glen all within City limits (36 sq miles), as well as the Mendon Ponds that would be in city limits if they were anywhere near the size of Birmingham. Rochester is also 45 minutes from Letchworth State Park which is one of the most stunning areas in the whole country.
I don't think you quite understand, those foothills and ridges are all within short distance in Birmingham; it's one of the hilliest cities in the country for a reason. Places like Corbett's Glen could simply be someone's backyard in Birmingham, you can get views like you see at Cobbs Hill Park just about anywhere in Birmingham, even at a Golf Course. You don't have to travel far for recreation, especially when it's literally within walking distance. Your flaw was trying to include areas that are nowhere near the city of Rochester, I could've done that too if I included places like Oak Mountain, Cheaha, Noccalula Falls, and etc. but no, it's about what's within Birmingham's city limits, or in close distance. To be quiet honest, walking up and down some of the streets in Birmingham is a hike itself, especially in the summer...with heat and humidity haha.
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Old 07-07-2017, 07:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
I don't think you quite understand, those foothills and ridges are all within short distance in Birmingham; it's one of the hilliest cities in the country for a reason. Places like Corbett's Glen could simply be someone's backyard in Birmingham, you can get views like you see at Cobbs Hill Park just about anywhere in Birmingham, even at a Golf Course. You don't have to travel far for recreation, especially when it's literally within walking distance. Your flaw was trying to include areas that are nowhere near the city of Rochester, I could've done that too if I included places like Oak Mountain, Cheaha, Noccalula Falls, and etc. but no, it's about what's within Birmingham's city limits, or in close distance. To be quiet honest, walking up and down some of the streets in Birmingham is a hike itself, especially in the summer...with heat and humidity haha.
We are comparing Metros so Letchworth and Chimney Bluffs and such would be fair game.
Certainly Birmingham is more rugged than Rochester but on the flip side there is no comparison with Water Recreation, Rochester blows Birmingham out of the water.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
We are comparing Metros so Letchworth and Chimney Bluffs and such would be fair game.
Certainly Birmingham is more rugged than Rochester but on the flip side there is no comparison with Water Recreation, Rochester blows Birmingham out of the water.
How ? Birmingham is a mere 4-5 hours from some of the best beaches in the country. Birmingham and Richmond have some of the best locations as far as distance to great (warm weather) mountains and beaches.

Salt Lake has both these cities beat for water recreation and certainly for mountains. SLC would be the best city for a skier.

Louisville is no slouch in waterfront for an inland city and probably has the most viable and rejuvenated waterfront of this bunch of cities. Lots of construction along it too on both sides of the river.
I would argue none of these cities have a water feature as visited, as nice, or as long as the big four bridge in Louisville:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti..._Kentucky.html

Buffalo's waterfront is surprisingly nice, plus Niagra is so close....but since it is too frigid to utilize at least 6 months a year, to me it's a nonfactor (after a few years in FL I don't even like 50s)
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Westside Grand Rapids
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post

Out of these cities it seems to me to be a clear race between SLC, Richmond and Louisville. I cannot find a current construction list for SLC....That would help here.
Here is a map for Grand Rapids. Grand Rapids may not be on the level of the cities you're talking about. However it's had 1.7billion since 2012, and another billion underway in 2017 so it's worth noting. The map I found for Louisville was metro wide. This study only talks about the investments within the 44sq mi of the city itself. If it were expanded out to include the larger suburban areas the number would grow substantially.

Construction projects flow into Grand Rapids | 2017-03-24 | Grand Rapids Business Journal
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:37 PM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
There's no style here. I would contact the mayor's office and see why the numbers differ so greatly. I really don't get why you are getting upset with me over the mayor's numbers? Maybe you should contact him and call his bluff? Wouldn't he know more than business first?

1.2 billion is way low though, just includes downtown, and was from a year ago. I can think of 6 projects off the top of my head that equal that.

Back to the discussion, which city here has a list like the project watch list? You are stating that the other cities here have this kind of construction. Which ones?

I know SLC has some impressive stuff in the pipeline....

Five projects to watch in 2017 - Building Salt Lake

What are the other city mayors stating? Does anyone have links to a Business First or similar project watch listing multimillion dollar developments for each city here?I'd love to know what development I am missing.
Actually, I think pretty much EVERY city listed in the OP has something similar lol, I don't think it's that exclusive to Louisville. Can't speak for others but for Birmingham...

Project/Crane Watch.

https://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/maps/crane-watch

A few Projects similar to the second link.

Birmingham approves $3.74 million package for Crossplex hotel, retail development | AL.com
Birmingham mayor proposes $40 million plan to move municipal court, police, and fire headquarters to Ensley | AL.com

Also, I noticed that Louisville is throwing a lot of money towards the development of new Apartment Complexes, similar to this, which is actually pretty common across the Sunbelt, you can actually find a bunch in Birmingham on the outskirts.

Again, I would also keep in mind that Louisville's land area is way larger than most of the cities listed in the OP, so obviously there's more room there for Louisville to develop.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:40 PM
 
8,638 posts, read 8,771,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
How ? Birmingham is a mere 4-5 hours from some of the best beaches in the country. Birmingham and Richmond have some of the best locations as far as distance to great (warm weather) mountains and beaches.

Salt Lake has both these cities beat for water recreation and certainly for mountains. SLC would be the best city for a skier.

Louisville is no slouch in waterfront for an inland city and probably has the most viable and rejuvenated waterfront of this bunch of cities. Lots of construction along it too on both sides of the river.
I would argue none of these cities have a water feature as visited, as nice, or as long as the big four bridge in Louisville:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti..._Kentucky.html

Buffalo's waterfront is surprisingly nice, plus Niagra is so close....but since it is too frigid to utilize at least 6 months a year, to me it's a nonfactor (after a few years in FL I don't even like 50s)
Yeah and Rochester is 15 minutes from Lake Ontario.
The South Shore of the lake gets quite warm, mid-70s. And I would doubt even Salt Lake is better than Ontario.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:42 PM
 
52,619 posts, read 75,426,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
We are comparing Metros so Letchworth and Chimney Bluffs and such would be fair game.
Certainly Birmingham is more rugged than Rochester but on the flip side there is no comparison with Water Recreation, Rochester blows Birmingham out of the water.
I think people are also forgetting that Rochester is the second smallest city in terms of land size on this list(Hartford is first and Buffalo is the third smallest on this list). So, it wouldn't make sense to just use city limits for each of these cities.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:57 PM
 
6,295 posts, read 13,173,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
Actually, I think pretty much EVERY city listed in the OP has something similar lol, I don't think it's that exclusive to Louisville. Can't speak for others but for Birmingham...

Project/Crane Watch.

https://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/maps/crane-watch

A few Projects similar to the second link.

Birmingham approves $3.74 million package for Crossplex hotel, retail development | AL.com
Birmingham mayor proposes $40 million plan to move municipal court, police, and fire headquarters to Ensley | AL.com

Also, I noticed that Louisville is throwing a lot of money towards the development of new Apartment Complexes, similar to this, which is actually pretty common across the Sunbelt, you can actually find a bunch in Birmingham on the outskirts.

Again, I would also keep in mind that Louisville's land area is way larger than most of the cities listed in the OP, so obviously there's more room there for Louisville to develop.
Louisville's map has way more activity, and like Birmingham's, focuses on the urban core. I'm sorry but look at some of the projects listed for Birmingham...many of them in the 3-10 million range have not even been mentioned for Louisville. I mean, this is not even a close comparison at all if you objectively look at those project lists.

I think you'd agree there's no comparison in development, growth, economy, or pretty much anything when it comes to Louisville to Birmingham. The Birmingham list is so puny that they have to list a proposed 1 million dollar carvana lot. Louisville already has Carvana, and no, you won't find it listed on project watch lol.
https://www.bizjournals.com/louisvil...lle-today.html

I couldn't find maps for Richmond and SLC, the two cities I think could come close to Louisville in development, but I think even they do not match it. If they did, I am sure their mayor would tout 9 billion in development.


Louisville has one project that is bigger and costs more than all the projects in downtown Birmingham combined

http://www.wlky.com/article/mayor-fi...uction/9143577

Warning, for those offended, the mayor uses the 9 billion number again. I did recently find out that 1.3 billion of that construction number is the Ford truck plant expansion.

UAB has the biggest construction projects in Birmingham....but University of Louisville easily matches that with multiple tower cranes up just on their campuses and a quarter billion in construction on campus alone just in 4 major projects:

http://www.whas11.com/news/four-cons...ille/428196817

Even Louisville's walkable, urban suburbs such as new Albany, IN are getting massive urban infill projects (this one is not even listed on the Project Watch map and would be one of the biggest projects in Birmingham, yet it is in an Indiana suburb of louisville):
https://www.bizjournals.com/louisvil...apartment.html


And finally, this....almost ANOTHER quarter billion in new announcements in the last 30 days alone...this stuff is announced almost daily:
https://www.bizjournals.com/louisvil...-projects.html

Last edited by Peter1948; 07-07-2017 at 10:05 PM..
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Old 07-07-2017, 09:00 PM
 
6,295 posts, read 13,173,944 times
Reputation: 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I think people are also forgetting that Rochester is the second smallest city in terms of land size on this list(Hartford is first and Buffalo is the third smallest on this list). So, it wouldn't make sense to just use city limits for each of these cities.
The OP clearly stated metro areas and that is the only fair way to compare these cities.
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Old 07-07-2017, 09:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
Here is a map for Grand Rapids. Grand Rapids may not be on the level of the cities you're talking about. However it's had 1.7billion since 2012, and another billion underway in 2017 so it's worth noting. The map I found for Louisville was metro wide. This study only talks about the investments within the 44sq mi of the city itself. If it were expanded out to include the larger suburban areas the number would grow substantially.

Construction projects flow into Grand Rapids | 2017-03-24 | Grand Rapids Business Journal
It's not on the same level as you stated. Many of these southern cities see 1-2 billion a year just in downtown per year....let alone over a 5 year period....

That said, Grand Rapids has a very nice urban core, albeit it feels like a smaller city because it is....a good chuck of its MSA like Holland doesn't feel like a part of the city at all. I have been to Grand Rapids twice. From what I recall, GR was well ahead of many of these cities in urban redevelopment but based on that list seems to not have the rapid growth some other places have seen in the last 3 years, at least with apartments, etc.

Last edited by Peter1948; 07-07-2017 at 09:51 PM..
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