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View Poll Results: Which would you prefer?
Louisville 13 10.57%
Richmond 25 20.33%
New Orleans 13 10.57%
Hartford 5 4.07%
Salt Lake 30 24.39%
Birmingham 7 5.69%
Buffalo 11 8.94%
Rochester 5 4.07%
Grand Rapids 6 4.88%
Tucson 8 6.50%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-07-2017, 11:44 PM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,063 posts, read 1,312,529 times
Reputation: 1676

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Huh? Louisville's map has way more activity, and like Birmingham's, focuses on the urban core. I'm sorry but look at some of the projects listed for Birmingham...many of them in the 3-10 million range have not even been mentioned for Louisville. I mean, this is not even a close comparison at all if you objectively look at those project lists.

I think you'd agree there's no comparison in development, growth, economy, or pretty much anything when it comes to Louisville to Birmingham. The Birmingham list is so puny that they have to list a proposed 1 million dollar carvana lot. Louisville already has Carvana, and no, you won't find it listed on project watch lol.
https://www.bizjournals.com/louisvil...lle-today.html

I couldn't find maps for Richmond and SLC, the two cities I think could come close to Louisville in development, but I think even they do not match it. If they did, I am sure their mayor would tout 9 billion in development.
Of course Lousiville's map has more activity, and Birmingham's focuses more on the Urban Core, it's like that for a reason. 1. Louisville's land area is much larger, so it covers more areas, 2. Louisville is just now starting to develop it's suburban-like areas.

For example, look at this. Most of those projects you see on that map are all located in areas that aren't built up or lacks any activity or density.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/60...!4d-85.6410627
https://www.google.com/maps/place/46...!4d-85.8487927
https://www.google.com/maps/place/67...6!4d-85.627825
https://www.google.com/maps/place/81...2!4d-85.742344

Get me? Birmingham's goal is to redevelop significant areas, and to infill within the Urban Core, which is one of the reasons why that TopGolf project is in the Uptown District, than it is in some suburban nieghborhood. That map doesn't include a lot of projects going along within the city, it has Carvana but it doesn't include projects such as...

High-rise $40 million apartment project planned for Five Points South | AL.com
Row5, five-unit townhouse development, coming to Morris Avenue | AL.com
See what the second hotel in the Empire Building project will look like | AL.com
https://www.bizjournals.com/birmingh...-railroad.html
See the latest renderings of the Powell Avenue Steam Plant project | AL.com
and etc.

Not to mention the projects that UAB has going on for itself; it's growing and expanding massively as well.

Construction to start this summer on new $39.5 million UAB arts, sciences building | AL.com
School of Nursing Addition/Renovation – Payette
Chad Thomas Hagwood Makes Signficant Investment Towards UAB Collat School of Business – Alabama CCIM Chapter
UAB is building a unique 'indoor' football practice facility without walls - CBSSports.com

Quote:
Via Reddit, re: new UAB dorm, developments

" [The proposed dorm] [g]ot the first stage of approval at the BOT meeting yesterday. It'll be 9 stories, have a 400 seat dining hall on the bottom, and be located at the corner of 10th Ave S and 16th St S where the Smolian International House and Sorority Square buildings are currently. Projected to open by the fall semester of 2020.

Other notable items:

-Approval for $4.8M new intramural fields in between 5th and 6th Ave S and 11th and 12th St S.
-Approval for $3M new building for the ROTC program
-Approval for $3.5M track & field facility next to the soccer stadium
-UAB bought the Purple Onion and Formaggios buildings on 10th Ave S and will demolish both
-UAB bought the Jeffco HR building on 14th St S

-Demolishing some other buildings: Worrell building near the corner of 18th st S & 10th Ave S (the one with the weird roof design). Also demolishing a couple of warehouse properties on 11th St S and 12th St S."
In comparison, Louisville will have more projects due to it's land area being larger, thus covering more areas, which is why you'll see more money being spent also...it's covering areas that aren't exactly built up.

And also, you mislead yourself with the Carvana thing. Carvana recently LAUNCHED in Louisville, but there's no current plans of actually building one in Lousiville.

Quote:
Louisville residents who buy a car from Carvana can have it delivered to home or work, or they can drive to Nashville where Carvana operates its nearest car vending machine.
Birmingham is building a Carvana vending machine in it's Midtown area.

Quote:
As we recently reported, that property was purchased by a group of investors led by multiple Colliers International Alabama brokers. The brokers said the property was attractive because of its proximity to 20 Midtown and other downtown amenities.
https://www.bizjournals.com/birmingh...-location.html
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Old 07-08-2017, 12:53 AM
 
6,309 posts, read 13,222,044 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
Of course Lousiville's map has more activity, and Birmingham's focuses more on the Urban Core, it's like that for a reason. 1. Louisville's land area is much larger, so it covers more areas, 2. Louisville is just now starting to develop it's suburban-like areas.

For example, look at this. Most of those projects you see on that map are all located in areas that aren't built up or lacks any activity or density.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/60...!4d-85.6410627
https://www.google.com/maps/place/46...!4d-85.8487927
https://www.google.com/maps/place/67...6!4d-85.627825
https://www.google.com/maps/place/81...2!4d-85.742344

Get me? Birmingham's goal is to redevelop significant areas, and to infill within the Urban Core, which is one of the reasons why that TopGolf project is in the Uptown District, than it is in some suburban nieghborhood. That map doesn't include a lot of projects going along within the city, it has Carvana but it doesn't include projects such as...

High-rise $40 million apartment project planned for Five Points South | AL.com
Row5, five-unit townhouse development, coming to Morris Avenue | AL.com
See what the second hotel in the Empire Building project will look like | AL.com
https://www.bizjournals.com/birmingh...-railroad.html
See the latest renderings of the Powell Avenue Steam Plant project | AL.com
and etc.

Not to mention the projects that UAB has going on for itself; it's growing and expanding massively as well.

Construction to start this summer on new $39.5 million UAB arts, sciences building | AL.com
School of Nursing Addition/Renovation – Payette
Chad Thomas Hagwood Makes Signficant Investment Towards UAB Collat School of Business – Alabama CCIM Chapter
UAB is building a unique 'indoor' football practice facility without walls - CBSSports.com



In comparison, Louisville will have more projects due to it's land area being larger, thus covering more areas, which is why you'll see more money being spent also...it's covering areas that aren't exactly built up.

And also, you mislead yourself with the Carvana thing. Carvana recently LAUNCHED in Louisville, but there's no current plans of actually building one in Lousiville.



Birmingham is building a Carvana vending machine in it's Midtown area.

OT....please quit trying to twist facts and picking out random fields within metro Louisville showing the least impressive developments and acting like that is what is going on there. Really, that is silliness. My only point in bringing up Caravana was essentially, who cares, its a 1 million dollar car lot.

We are talking about metro areas. Please, show me how Birmingham compares to any of these cities in metro areas? I showed you how Louisville's suburbs alone blow Birmingham out....but how can Birmingham compare to the development, growth, GDP, really anything in any of these cities? The answer is it doesn't. That's not to say nothing is going on...but add Hoover, Vestavia, wherever you want, and it just cannot compare to these other cities!

Here are some similar pics of Birmingham, all within less than 10 mins of downtown!

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5340...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5374...6!9m2!1b1!2i35


Anyone can pull out random fields and then claim those are locations of the "least impressive development." Cane Road Rd is not even on the radar of 90% of Louisvillians.

I am talking about urban, downtown, and metro development. In which case Richmond, Louisville, and Slat Lake blow Birmingham to smithereens. Like, it's not even close as I have already shown. New Orleans too, but its in a different form as the built environment is already there.
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Old 07-08-2017, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Westside Grand Rapids
3,573 posts, read 3,062,668 times
Reputation: 5502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
It's not on the same level as you stated. Many of these southern cities see 1-2 billion a year just in downtown per year....let alone over a 5 year period....

That said, Grand Rapids has a very nice urban core, albeit it feels like a smaller city because it is....a good chuck of its MSA like Holland doesn't feel like a part of the city at all. I have been to Grand Rapids twice. From what I recall, GR was well ahead of many of these cities in urban redevelopment but based on that list seems to not have the rapid growth some other places have seen in the last 3 years, at least with apartments, etc.
According to the census bureau quickfacts Jefferson County Kentucky had 2,852 building permits in 2016, compared to Kent County Michigan having 2,823. That's a difference of 29 for a county that contains 120k more people. If Grand Rapids isn't seeing "Rapid Growth", how the heck is Louisville?
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...ucky/PST045216

Grand Rapids has added almost 3,000 apartment units(core neighborhood numbers only)in the last 3 years that's nothing to shake a stick at(for a city of 195k people). The numbers suggest Louisville has not added more than that itself. There are currently 17 active major construction sites in the downtown core alone, that's not counting the projects still in development stages. That also doesn't take into consideration the many suburban developments, of which were added to the numbers in your Louisville map. Rapid growth no, most of the cities on this list aren't seeing rapid growth, including Louisville.

Also Louisville is middle of the road with population growth(behind GR in both raw numbers and percentages). Since metro areas take all metro counties into account, I don't believe for a second this is because a bunch of single millennials and childless gays are moving into Southern Indiana and Oldham County. It's just not growing as fast.


Louisville is also middle of the road economically. Grand Rapids was almost 2 full points ahead of it in job 2016 growth. Louisvilles 3.9% May unemployment rate is higher than Grand Rapids 2.8%


For all of the great core construction transpiring in Louisville, it hasn't translated into strong numbers for these other metrics. Why is that? When I look at numbers that showcase momentum the only metric it may be beating little Grand Rapids in is core construction. Even then it's a bit fuzzy by how much. Grand Rapids is middle of the road when put up next to SLC, Richmond, Raleigh ect. It is quite likely in a tier lower. Belittle it all you want, but Grand Rapids stands up pretty good against Louisville (and these other cities) in a lot of the metrics you want to push as "momentum".

Last edited by mjlo; 07-08-2017 at 07:46 AM..
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:57 AM
 
1,043 posts, read 1,058,853 times
Reputation: 2375
The Buffalo Metro area statistics do not include the adjacent Niagara Region of Canada, which ups the immediate area population to about 1.6 million (Canadians are well-represented at Buffalo shopping malls), and the presence of 30 million visitors to Niagara Falls ensures that there are plenty of recreational and touristy activities available. (FYI Niagara Falls IS in the Buffalo metro, about only 15 miles between city limits). The adjacent Golden Horseshoe of Ontario, which bumps up against Buffalo (and may include Buffalo and Rochester if looked at internationally) is the 4th largest urban region in North America and includes over 13 million people. The Buffalo Metro also bumps up against the Rochester metro, including the Finger Lakes region (Letchworth is only slightly more distant from Buffalo than Rochester, for example).
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:10 AM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,063 posts, read 1,312,529 times
Reputation: 1676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
OT....please quit trying to twist facts and picking out random fields within metro Louisville showing the least impressive developments and acting like that is what is going on there. Really, that is silliness. My only point in bringing up Caravana was essentially, who cares, its a 1 million dollar car lot.

We are talking about metro areas. Please, show me how Birmingham compares to any of these cities in metro areas? I showed you how Louisville's suburbs alone blow Birmingham out....but how can Birmingham compare to the development, growth, GDP, really anything in any of these cities? The answer is it doesn't. That's not to say nothing is going on...but add Hoover, Vestavia, wherever you want, and it just cannot compare to these other cities!

Here are some similar pics of Birmingham, all within less than 10 mins of downtown!

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5340...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5374...6!9m2!1b1!2i35


Anyone can pull out random fields and then claim those are locations of the "least impressive development." Cane Road Rd is not even on the radar of 90% of Louisvillians.

I am talking about urban, downtown, and metro development. In which case Richmond, Louisville, and Slat Lake blow Birmingham to smithereens. Like, it's not even close as I have already shown. New Orleans too, but its in a different form as the built environment is already there.
Wait, I'm so confused lol. I didn't post random fields, I posted future sites of the projects that was literally listed on the Project Watch map you posted. I posted them to show how extensive Lousiville's development is in relation to it's land area, which means the city is bound to spend more. You said Cane Road is not on the radar of 90% of Lousivillians, yet Louisville is still spending millions to move people into those areas.

Those links you posted of Birmingham are/were industrial sites, I mean, it's one of the reasons why there's rail road tracks nearby (Being that, Birmingham is a Rust Belt city). Those locations aren't similar to Louisville location sites because they're not being deveoped, you know, because they're privately owned lol; so they're not even relevant in the first place. If you wanted to see some Revitalization projects on the Westside, you should've traveled a bit more West...

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5116...7i13312!8i6656
Apartments, health center, business incubator in mix for Ensley public safety complex plan | AL.com

My initial posts weren't really fixated on Metro Areas, but you're right, this thread is also about Metro Areas in it's entirety, even though I don't think you mentioned metro areas in your other posts. Birmingham's metro area is actually a bit different in comparison to the rest of the cities in the OP, they pretty much have their own things going on.

Bessemer:
A/B

Homewood:
A/B/C

Mountain Brook:
A/B/C

Hoover:
A/B/C

And of course there's always Vestavia Hils, Trussville, Irondale, Centerpoint, and etc. As I said before, they have their own things going on that's not really relative to Birmingham at all.

New name unveiled for $80 million Hoover sports complex - HooverSun.com
Get a glimpse of West Homewood Plan details up for discussion this week | AL.com
8 cool things to see and do at the new Grand Bohemian Hotel Mountain Brook | AL.com
Homestead Village - Bhamwiki
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Old 07-08-2017, 06:47 PM
 
6,309 posts, read 13,222,044 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
According to the census bureau quickfacts Jefferson County Kentucky had 2,852 building permits in 2016, compared to Kent County Michigan having 2,823. That's a difference of 29 for a county that contains 120k more people. If Grand Rapids isn't seeing "Rapid Growth", how the heck is Louisville?
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...ucky/PST045216

Grand Rapids has added almost 3,000 apartment units(core neighborhood numbers only)in the last 3 years that's nothing to shake a stick at(for a city of 195k people). The numbers suggest Louisville has not added more than that itself. There are currently 17 active major construction sites in the downtown core alone, that's not counting the projects still in development stages. That also doesn't take into consideration the many suburban developments, of which were added to the numbers in your Louisville map. Rapid growth no, most of the cities on this list aren't seeing rapid growth, including Louisville.

Also Louisville is middle of the road with population growth(behind GR in both raw numbers and percentages). Since metro areas take all metro counties into account, I don't believe for a second this is because a bunch of single millennials and childless gays are moving into Southern Indiana and Oldham County. It's just not growing as fast.


Louisville is also middle of the road economically. Grand Rapids was almost 2 full points ahead of it in job 2016 growth. Louisvilles 3.9% May unemployment rate is higher than Grand Rapids 2.8%


For all of the great core construction transpiring in Louisville, it hasn't translated into strong numbers for these other metrics. Why is that? When I look at numbers that showcase momentum the only metric it may be beating little Grand Rapids in is core construction. Even then it's a bit fuzzy by how much. Grand Rapids is middle of the road when put up next to SLC, Richmond, Raleigh ect. It is quite likely in a tier lower. Belittle it all you want, but Grand Rapids stands up pretty good against Louisville (and these other cities) in a lot of the metrics you want to push as "momentum".


We are talking strictly about big construction projects...in which case GR cannot compete with SLC, Richmond, and Louisville.

Population growth wise, there's not a heck of a lot difference between 4 and 6 %....I consider that within margin of error. Even so, Louisville is dragged down by the cesspool which is its west end...but even that area has hundreds of millions in planned construction, its just not a lot has materialized. When it does, Louisville's population growth will markedly improve as it is the West End inner city areas that drag the population growth down (those areas continue to lose population). Fact of the matter is, like a smaller version of Detroit, Louisville has massive black population that imply doesn't exist in very vanilla GR. You don't have to beat around the bush to realize any city with old industrial centers with large improverished African American communities don't look as good on paper when compared with their vanilla white peers.

What you failed to point out is Kent County (GR) MI has almost three times the land area of Jefferson County KY yet it has 120,000 less people and not much over 1/3 the population density county wide. That's a massive difference you failed to point out.

With regards to construction permits, GR has had arguably the best economy in the Midwest in the last decade, and along with Indy, its downtown was solid well before many others. My point is that Louisville has a handful of projects worth more than everything in a place like GR combined. If I am wrong, please post several 50-100+ million mega projects for Grand Rapids.

That said, it still feels like a smaller city and Louisville feels like a half tier above Grand Rapids. No one belittles GR and it belongs squarely in this discussion, but it feels more like Omaha than the cities at the top of this size grouping.

Last edited by Peter1948; 07-08-2017 at 07:25 PM..
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Old 07-08-2017, 06:54 PM
 
8,671 posts, read 8,832,284 times
Reputation: 5201
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
The Buffalo Metro area statistics do not include the adjacent Niagara Region of Canada, which ups the immediate area population to about 1.6 million (Canadians are well-represented at Buffalo shopping malls), and the presence of 30 million visitors to Niagara Falls ensures that there are plenty of recreational and touristy activities available. (FYI Niagara Falls IS in the Buffalo metro, about only 15 miles between city limits). The adjacent Golden Horseshoe of Ontario, which bumps up against Buffalo (and may include Buffalo and Rochester if looked at internationally) is the 4th largest urban region in North America and includes over 13 million people. The Buffalo Metro also bumps up against the Rochester metro, including the Finger Lakes region (Letchworth is only slightly more distant from Buffalo than Rochester, for example).
Buffalo I think seems like the biggest city on this list mostly due to the Fort Erie area does contribute to Buffalo, often 15% of the Liscense plates are Ontario ones.
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:09 PM
 
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
11,219 posts, read 7,630,337 times
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Geographically alone SLC is awesome! It's on the foothills of the mountains and along the Great Salt Lake and surrounded by other fantastic areas.
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:28 PM
 
6,309 posts, read 13,222,044 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Buffalo I think seems like the biggest city on this list mostly due to the Fort Erie area does contribute to Buffalo, often 15% of the Liscense plates are Ontario ones.
Richmond and Louisville are just as dense and have similar well built urban hoods. Buffalo doesn't feel bigger because of this.
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:49 PM
 
8,671 posts, read 8,832,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Richmond and Louisville are just as dense and have similar well built urban hoods. Buffalo doesn't feel bigger because of this.
That is factually incorrect, Buffalo has ~32k more people in 20 fewer sq miles than Richmond, leading to a Density about 80% higher than Richmond.
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