U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-21-2017, 10:23 AM
 
52,622 posts, read 75,426,573 times
Reputation: 11627

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Here's street views of what I would consider "peak traditional urbanity" for each of the main rust belt cities. That is to say, the oldest intact 19th century residential neighborhoods. I'm using non-commercial streets in all cases.

Pittsburgh (Mexican War Streets)
Buffalo (Allentown)
Cleveland (Ohio City)
Cincinnati (Over-The-Rhine)
St. Louis (Soulard)
Milwaukee (Lower East Side)
Detroit (Corktown)

IMHO the difference between Pittsburgh, Cinci, and St. Louis on one side, and Buffalo, Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Detroit on the other is self evident.
For Buffalo, I would use the nearby West Village neighborhood: https://goo.gl/maps/39mXum4FwVD2

West Village
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_V...falo,_New_York)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-21-2017, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
11,902 posts, read 10,985,220 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
For Buffalo, I would use the nearby West Village neighborhood: https://goo.gl/maps/39mXum4FwVD2

West Village
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_V...falo,_New_York)
It's still roughly at the same tier of urbanity as somewhere like Shadyside in Pittsburgh, which was only really built out as part of the boom of the East End starting in the 1890s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2017, 12:05 PM
 
1,414 posts, read 674,823 times
Reputation: 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Here's street views of what I would consider "peak traditional urbanity" for each of the main rust belt cities. That is to say, the oldest intact 19th century residential neighborhoods. I'm using non-commercial streets in all cases.

Pittsburgh (Mexican War Streets)
Buffalo (Allentown)
Cleveland (Ohio City)
Cincinnati (Over-The-Rhine)
St. Louis (Soulard)
Milwaukee (Lower East Side)
Detroit (Corktown)

IMHO the difference between Pittsburgh, Cinci, and St. Louis on one side, and Buffalo, Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Detroit on the other is self evident.

This is Milwaukee's most densely populated neighborhood.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mi...!4d-87.9064736
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2017, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
11,902 posts, read 10,985,220 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
This is Milwaukee's most densely populated neighborhood.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mi...!4d-87.9064736
I know Milwaukee has infill towers along the lake shore. It doesn't mean the area is good from an urban design perspective, just that it has a dense population. It's exactly analogous to how Lincoln Park is a better urban neighborhood than Gold Coast in Chicago despite being around a third of its population density.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2017, 12:18 PM
 
1,414 posts, read 674,823 times
Reputation: 1882
Well, we could argue, as this is my favorite "neighborhood" in Milwaukee. I once lived on the east side, and it's a stunning area...large, stately homes, high-rise condos, Brady Street, and many other neighborhoods that flow together, seamlessly, to downtown.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2017, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,611 posts, read 24,787,463 times
Reputation: 11185
One would think St. Louis would have a much more walkable core considering it was a larger than Baltimore in 1880.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2017, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
11,902 posts, read 10,985,220 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
One would think St. Louis would have a much more walkable core considering it was a larger than Baltimore in 1880.
St. Louis was hit very hard by by urban renewal. Not only is there not a single intact first-ring urban neighborhood, there's not many second-ring urban neighborhoods left either. People from Saint Louis have told me that during the mid 20th century the city actually went out of its way to destroy just about all of the rowhouse stock because they were considered "antiquated slum housing" in the area.

Cincinnati was horrendous too. Back in the 19th century the area in/around downtown Cinci was literally the densest part of the U.S. outside of Manhattan - and the only place outside of NYC and Boston that tenement housing was widely built. Over-The-Rhine is basically all that's left of the early/middle 19th century flat city closer to the river. Between expansion of the CBD, highways, urban blight in most of the West End, and the construction of the massive Queensgate industrial zone, the rest was just about wiped out. It has a great advantage over St. Louis (and Pittsburgh) in that Over-The-Rhine is not only still there, but basically walkable to downtown with no highway in the way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2017, 12:44 PM
 
52,622 posts, read 75,426,573 times
Reputation: 11627
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
St. Louis was hit very hard by by urban renewal. Not only is there not a single intact first-ring urban neighborhood, there's not many second-ring urban neighborhoods left either. People from Saint Louis have told me that during the mid 20th century the city actually went out of its way to destroy just about all of the rowhouse stock because they were considered "antiquated slum housing" in the area.

Cincinnati was horrendous too. Back in the 19th century the area in/around downtown Cinci was literally the densest part of the U.S. outside of Manhattan - and the only place outside of NYC and Boston that tenement housing was widely built. Over-The-Rhine is basically all that's left of the early/middle 19th century flat city closer to the river. Between expansion of the CBD, highways, urban blight in most of the West End, and the construction of the massive Queensgate industrial zone, the rest was just about wiped out. It has a great advantage over St. Louis (and Pittsburgh) in that Over-The-Rhine is not only still there, but basically walkable to downtown with no highway in the way.
To be honest, Urban Renewal did a number on all Legacy cities mentioned, where neighborhoods next to Downtown(Detroit's Black Bottom and Buffalo's Michigan Ave are a couple that come to mind) were destroyed for highways and now cities are trying to rectify those mistakes by tearing down those highways. Now it may be a matter of what they do for infill.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2017, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
11,902 posts, read 10,985,220 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
To be honest, Urban Renewal did a number on all Legacy cities mentioned, where neighborhoods next to Downtown(Detroit's Black Bottom and Buffalo's Michigan Ave are a couple that come to mind) were destroyed for highways and now cities are trying to rectify those mistakes by tearing down those highways. Now it may be a matter of what they do for infill.
Yeah, it's true there are no cities I'd call stunningly intact in the core of the rust belt. But Baltimore and Philadelphia are sometimes considered rust belt (and certainly legacy cities) and maintained their fabric through the urban renewal period much better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2017, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
987 posts, read 489,366 times
Reputation: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Can't believe this thread is serious. Everyone loves hating on the rust belt, here and everywhere else. Coasters I guess really hate when even one person says they don't think the coast is all that great.
I wonder what they've said about the Rust Belt from your experience? I can imagine coasters getting defensive about the people not liking the Coast because a lot of people on the Coast have "Fine Girl Syndrome." It's that girl that everybody tells her she's fine, buttering her up then when that one person tells her she isn't fine her ego is shot because she's used to everybody telling her she's beautiful and how great she is. A lot of people from the Coast have that mentality; they've been praised by the national media, tourists and everybody and their mama that it's the only place to be in the world, and if you choose a Rust Belt city over the Coast you're crazy or don't travel that much.

Last edited by QCongress83216; 07-21-2017 at 02:21 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top