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Old 09-22-2017, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,619 posts, read 24,821,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Chicago has a decent cluster of cities that could be viable for high speed rail distances around it with Indianapolis, Detroit, Milwaukee, and St. Louis though it's doubtful we'll see any headway on this with the current administration.
I don't know how HSR works in other countries, but Acela seems mostly targeted at business travelers, and the tickets tend to be pricey. Would a cluster of Midwestern cities have a sufficient number of professionals who need to travel between, say, Chicago and St. Louis on a regular basis?
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:10 AM
 
Location: The mountain of Airy
5,148 posts, read 4,992,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Yup.
Philly, the Bos-Wash city that most conveniently located, with respect to the others, is also the cheapest and least in-demand, which kinda negates the argument that people pay more for proximity to other cities.
This statement is a huge oversimplification. There are negative forces with housing costs and positive forces. The negative forces for the past decades have been substantial in Philly. If Philly were located in the midwest, we have no clue how the city would have fared.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,619 posts, read 24,821,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
To be fair though, he was talking about one city pairing, but Northeast and Acela cover a much longer route with multiple metros and many more city pairing combinations.
I understand that. That's why I made the comment about whether the NE Corridor had 14 times the population of Chicagoland-Milwaukee. The higher ridership is not simply a product of having a larger population.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
That's true, but what does that have to do with the highest volume routes, which are NYC to PHI and DC to NYC?
Because a Philly to Albany or Boston to Binghamton Passemger counts as a Bos-NY or Philly-NY passenger. Because they have to transfer at NYPA. Even Philly to Boston for the most part has to transfer at NYPA. Effectively making those segments very busy without the travel demand between the end pairs to match.

I would bet JFK to ATL is one of the buisest air routes in the country but not because ATL is particularly tied to NYC but they both funnel the traffic from their respective regions into 1 route.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,887 posts, read 12,198,119 times
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Imagine that Philly a landlocked metro sandwiched between the Worlds Business HQ's and the Federal Government has a lower cost of living.

Shocking I tell you.

Last edited by rainrock; 09-22-2017 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:41 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,162 posts, read 21,760,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Yup.
Philly, the Bos-Wash city that most conveniently located, with respect to the others, is also the cheapest and least in-demand, which kinda negates the argument that people pay more for proximity to other cities.
Right, it's an outlier. Some people blame the proximity to NYC as draining area school graduates and businesses, though with NYC's escalating housing costs, I've seen the opppsite effect of people wanting to live more affordably, but still within a walkable major city and with close access to their social network in NYC. My feeling is that this trend will continue and will play a minor part in Philadelphia's future growth.

Sort of like come for NYC, stay for Philly.
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:01 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I understand that. That's why I made the comment about whether the NE Corridor had 14 times the population of Chicagoland-Milwaukee. The higher ridership is not simply a product of having a larger population.
I was making the point about there being multiple nodes though, not just total population. If Milwaukee is the cut-off metro size, then there are seven metros along the Northeast Corridor rail service that are at least as large as Milwaukee's metro. In combinations, that's 7 choose 2 so it's 21 possible distinct end combinations. You'd want to get rid of the 2 that have direct commuter rail service (Boston-Providence and DC-Baltimore), plus the 8 at the tail ends where flying almost always makes more sense (Boston-Baltimore, Boston-DC, Boston-Hampton Roads, then the same for Providence in place of Boston, then Hampton Roads-Philadelphia and Hampton Roads-New York City), where you end up with 11 reasonable train travel combinations with all of these to larger metros than Milwaukee, with four much larger, NYC being a much larger node than Chicago, and one node that is a bit smaller than Milwaukee's metro that's not included (Richmond) so it sort of works out.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 09-22-2017 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,619 posts, read 24,821,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Because a Philly to Albany or Boston to Binghamton Passemger counts as a Bos-NY or Philly-NY passenger. Because they have to transfer at NYPA. Even Philly to Boston for the most part has to transfer at NYPA. Effectively making those segments very busy without the travel demand between the end pairs to match.
But how do you make that assumption based on what's stated in the document?

Quote:
Origin and Destination

By weighting the survey data to the boarding and alighting matrix, we generated a matrix of trip volumes by ultimate origin and destination. While that entire matrix is large, the majority of trips are concentrated in a few submarket pairs. Table 6 shows the top 10 origin-destination by estimated weekly ridership. These estimates are based on the subset of complete surveys with accurate boarding and alighting information, and on the boarding and alighting estimates for those submarket pairs that include New York City, Boston, andWashington DC. The top three submarket pairs represent 62% of all intercity bus travel along the NEC.
This study did something similar.

Quote:
For the bus study, surveys were distributed at major bus terminals in New York City, Boston, and Washington DC. Additionally, several curbside locations in New York were surveyed, allowing for the inclusion of a wide variety of virtually all bus companies making long-distance trips on the corridor. Passengers could complete the survey immediately and return it to staff, complete the survey online, or return it via Business Reply Mail. While distributing the bus surveys, staff also counted passengers as they boarded. These counts were used to develop a model of ridership based on factors like origin and destination, bus company, and time of day. This model was then applied to meticulously collected schedule data for all the bus companies in the region, yielding estimates of total ridership.
http://www.nec-commission.com/wp-con...rt_Website.pdf

That methodology does not sound like they are simply counting the number of people who get on a bus in Manhattan and take it to DC with accounting for their ultimate origin and destination.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 09-22-2017 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 09-22-2017, 05:10 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
3,978 posts, read 1,944,710 times
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are the northeast cities the most inter-connected ground-transportation region in the world considering all travel options ?: peter-pan, grey-hound, chinatown busses, northeast direct, acela, bolt, megabus, ...

Last edited by stanley-88888888; 09-22-2017 at 06:10 PM..
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Old 09-22-2017, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,304 posts, read 17,941,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Gee, I wonder why this house appreciated so much?
I admit I just looked at the sale history without reading. The point is that there are areas which are increasing fairly well right now and it pretty much varies widely area by area. Some areas have nothing happening while others have a healthy (but not too crazy on average) increase of price. What has driven some increases in prices in some areas versus others even varies. Like downtown driving force of prices might be different than an area 4 miles north of there and might even vary by section. There's been tons of tear downs in the last decade, so in those types of areas the prices increase because the owners of the now old homes on the block know that their houses are in high demand (to tear down of course and build something brand new over it).


In the end though, cities like SF and in NYC, Manhattan, don't have much supply of actual land - and you know, simple economics here along with the demand creates a big increase of price. It's kind of obvious in the end.
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