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View Poll Results: Most urban
Seattle 37 22.29%
Baltimore 76 45.78%
Pittsburgh 15 9.04%
Cincinati 7 4.22%
New Orleans 8 4.82%
Miami 23 13.86%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-02-2017, 09:49 AM
 
3,590 posts, read 2,027,087 times
Reputation: 3319

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An added point: The fact that Seattle's density is heavily concentrated in 15% of the city is a key reason why we do so much better than Baltimore on transit and walk commute share. Pervasive density is admirable, but concentrated density puts people right near work or right near transit.

Regarding peak urbanity, another point: A retail/tourist/jobs heavy downtown like Seattle's can reach higher pedestrian peaks. Although Baltimore has a good public market and a nice waterfront, does it have an entire neighborhood like the Pike Place Market where pedestrian volumes are routinely at crush level? Does it have a Pine Street with department stores and more retail than most regional malls in a small area? The two waterfronts might be pretty similar in pedestrian volume. The office cores are on a different scale. I suspect Seattle's 13,000 downtown hotel rooms (will approach 16,000 with current construction) are probably higher but that's a guess.
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:59 AM
 
429 posts, read 278,238 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by HelterSkelter View Post
This whole comment makes literally no sense in any aspect, Seattle's "peak" urban neighborhood is nowhere near Baltimore's peak and that includes downtown. Tall high rises don't make a city better from an urban perspective and especially not newly built ones. What makes urban neighborhoods great is walkability, streetwalls, store fronts that are easily accessible and front the sidewalk, small streets. Seattle has hardly any of this and Baltimore is filled with it all over the city. So no, again, there is no "peak" urbanity in Seattle that even comes close in any way to Baltimore's "peak" and it's blatantly obvious. You're just a hometown city boaster. Judging by this criteria Cleveland could have better "peak" urbanity than central Paris.
Some Seattle streetviews from all over the city:

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6083...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6006...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5983...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6160...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6610...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6656...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6134...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5622...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6246...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5490...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5495...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6138...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6496...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5585...7i13312!8i6656

Last edited by Edward234; 08-02-2017 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:02 AM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,245 posts, read 5,543,663 times
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Nice street views.
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:03 AM
 
Location: The City
21,953 posts, read 30,828,588 times
Reputation: 7489
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
An added point: The fact that Seattle's density is heavily concentrated in 15% of the city is a key reason why we do so much better than Baltimore on transit and walk commute share. Pervasive density is admirable, but concentrated density puts people right near work or right near transit.

Regarding peak urbanity, another point: A retail/tourist/jobs heavy downtown like Seattle's can reach higher pedestrian peaks. Although Baltimore has a good public market and a nice waterfront, does it have an entire neighborhood like the Pike Place Market where pedestrian volumes are routinely at crush level? Does it have a Pine Street with department stores and more retail than most regional malls in a small area? The two waterfronts might be pretty similar in pedestrian volume. The office cores are on a different scale. I suspect Seattle's 13,000 downtown hotel rooms (will approach 16,000 with current construction) are probably higher but that's a guess.


maybe this perspective comes down to considering a smaller core as the basis or the overall city itself, if limited (a few sq miles) you could argue Seattle, looking at the city as the whole Baltimore is the most urban, with a pretty close urban (especially compared to Seattle)
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:04 AM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,245 posts, read 5,543,663 times
Reputation: 3256
Does Seattle have structurally dense residential neighborhoods?
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:14 AM
 
Location: The City
21,953 posts, read 30,828,588 times
Reputation: 7489
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Does Seattle have structurally dense residential neighborhoods?


a smaller footprint compared to Baltimore based on my experience, and fairly significantly in build


Baltimore had/has the build to hold significantly more people, 50 years ago it held nearly 1 Million people (no HH size has an impact but not in total)


Seattle is beautiful city with lots of water, even more than Baltimore but has a relatively small more densely developed urban core. Today it core DT (expanded) is more impressive than Baltimore which for US standards is pretty substantial and urban.
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:18 AM
 
Location: The mountain of Airy
5,148 posts, read 4,992,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
I don't see how "desirability" or city health impact urbanity. NYC wasn't any less urban in the 70s.
Not sure if this is targeted at me, but I don't think that it necessarily does, unless a place is so undesirable that properties fall apart, burn down, and are razed.
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:26 AM
 
3,590 posts, read 2,027,087 times
Reputation: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
maybe this perspective comes down to considering a smaller core as the basis or the overall city itself, if limited (a few sq miles) you could argue Seattle, looking at the city as the whole Baltimore is the most urban, with a pretty close urban (especially compared to Seattle)
That part is about the core, but again Seattle's density is more about the 15% of the city that allows density. This is in a couple dozen districts around town. The five or six most central square miles are a big part, but some of the others are pretty significant, with sometimes thousands of new units in urban-type buildings recently built on top of an already-walkable neighborhood (on that scale would be Ballard, West Seattle Junction, University District, and the districts around greater Downtown).
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Old 08-02-2017, 12:06 PM
 
429 posts, read 278,238 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Nice street views.
Thanks - and honestly, I do think overall Baltimore is more urban because of its much more consistent and traditional urban fabric. But I had to post at least some streetviews to disprove the blatant lies posters like HelterSkelter are putting out there about Seattle. Overall, I do think Seattle belongs in second place among these cities.
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Old 08-02-2017, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,257 posts, read 12,568,975 times
Reputation: 5094
Quote:
Originally Posted by HelterSkelter View Post
That makes no sense, Baltimore is "peak" urbanity, so is New Orleans. Seattle is mostly new built stuff that isn't nearly as urban as those older cities. Seattle's urban efforts are constantly overstated, there is still plenty of parking garages, large block developments and parking lots all over the city. No matter how good it is by modern standards it's still nowhere near as good as an 18th-century urban core.

I wouldn't even consider Seattle third on this list since it's not better than Miami, and Cincy still has good pre-war bones that don't exist in Seattle. But Cincy's horrible highway network would put it below Seattle. But then Pittsburgh's urban fabric is better than Seattle too.
Old, new what difference does it make? Old rowhouses lined up with no grocery stores or urban amenities is not what I call urban. An example is downtown Baltimore. It's look or 'urban fabric' is old but once you're actually in the thick of things, it's a dud. Downtown Seattle is definitely newer but it is a place I'd rather live than dt Baltimore. It's walkable, has great shopping, nightlife, tons of restaurants, cultural amenities. And it's not just downtown, but Capitol Hill, Ballard, the UDistrict, Madison Park and a few others. When I was in Baltimore last year I was thoroughly disappointed. I see positive changes but it has a lot of work to do.
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