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View Poll Results: Most urban
Seattle 37 22.29%
Baltimore 76 45.78%
Pittsburgh 15 9.04%
Cincinati 7 4.22%
New Orleans 8 4.82%
Miami 23 13.86%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-01-2017, 11:31 PM
Status: "Ready for Fall" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Atlanta
4,645 posts, read 3,015,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelterSkelter View Post
That makes no sense, Baltimore is "peak" urbanity, so is New Orleans. Seattle is mostly new built stuff that isn't nearly as urban as those older cities. Seattle's urban efforts are constantly overstated, there is still plenty of parking garages, large block developments and parking lots all over the city. No matter how good it is by modern standards it's still nowhere near as good as an 18th-century urban core.

I wouldn't even consider Seattle third on this list since it's not better than Miami, and Cincy still has good pre-war bones that don't exist in Seattle. But Cincy's horrible highway network would put it below Seattle. But then Pittsburgh's urban fabric is better than Seattle too.
No, on all counts. It sounds like you've never been to Seattle.
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Old 08-02-2017, 05:00 AM
 
7,177 posts, read 3,872,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
No, on all counts. It sounds like you've never been to Seattle.
What Seattle neighborhoods are as urban as Federal Hill, Charles Village, Fells Point, Canton or Hampden? I'll wait.
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Old 08-02-2017, 06:44 AM
 
Location: The mountain of Airy
5,145 posts, read 4,988,519 times
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A lot of people are pointing to Baltimore's blight and walkability. For a place to be urban, it doesn't have to be safe. Urban is the build, not the people. Vibrancy considers the people.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
11,906 posts, read 10,994,617 times
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The first is very unimpressive to me from an urban perspective. Tall buildings - whether residential or commercial - is not enough to create an urban vibe, which has more to do pedestrian activity on the street level than anything. Using NYC as an example, portions of Midtown are among the most dead feeling parts of Manhattan, because you have these giant buildings with little to no commercial storefronts on the ground level. Or in Chicago, Lincoln Park feels a lot more urban than Gold Coast, despite the much higher population density (and big apartment towers) in the latter.

The second isn't in the city limits, so it doesn't count. As I said, Miami Beach is much more urban than Miami.

The third is just a bunch of boring towers again. When I pan to the back, I see a fake downtown lifestyle center. It's not awful, but you can find stuff like that throughout the Sun Belt.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Northeast states
10,333 posts, read 7,234,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
The first is very unimpressive to me from an urban perspective. Tall buildings - whether residential or commercial - is not enough to create an urban vibe, which has more to do pedestrian activity on the street level than anything. Using NYC as an example, portions of Midtown are among the most dead feeling parts of Manhattan, because you have these giant buildings with little to no commercial storefronts on the ground level. Or in Chicago, Lincoln Park feels a lot more urban than Gold Coast, despite the much higher population density (and big apartment towers) in the latter.

The second isn't in the city limits, so it doesn't count. As I said, Miami Beach is much more urban than Miami.

The third is just a bunch of boring towers again. When I pan to the back, I see a fake downtown lifestyle center. It's not awful, but you can find stuff like that throughout the Sun Belt.
Off course it not going be NYC Miami more similar to coastal South American city
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:27 AM
 
Location: The mountain of Airy
5,145 posts, read 4,988,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
The first is very unimpressive to me from an urban perspective. Tall buildings - whether residential or commercial - is not enough to create an urban vibe, which has more to do pedestrian activity on the street level than anything. Using NYC as an example, portions of Midtown are among the most dead feeling parts of Manhattan, because you have these giant buildings with little to no commercial storefronts on the ground level. Or in Chicago, Lincoln Park feels a lot more urban than Gold Coast, despite the much higher population density (and big apartment towers) in the latter.

The second isn't in the city limits, so it doesn't count. As I said, Miami Beach is much more urban than Miami.

The third is just a bunch of boring towers again. When I pan to the back, I see a fake downtown lifestyle center. It's not awful, but you can find stuff like that throughout the Sun Belt.
Agreed on Miami Beach. It always creeps into discussion on Miami vibrancy and urban form.

I'm not convinced that the other two aren't urban in nature. You mentioned vibrancy, but I think vibrancy relates more to people, activity and amenities than urban form. Urban form can facilitate a more vibrant city, but they're not really the same IMO.

For example, some of the most urban places I've been have been quiet AND urban (think residential sections of Venice). Wall to wall concrete in claustrophobic pedestrian streets where the buildings nearly block out the light.

Regardless, the Miami examples aren't exactly thunderous in their urban nature. Setbacks, trees, gardens, etc.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Northeast states
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
Agreed on Miami Beach. It always creeps into discussion on Miami vibrancy and urban form.

I'm not convinced that the other two aren't urban in nature. You mentioned vibrancy, but I think vibrancy relates more to people, activity and amenities than urban form. Urban form can facilitate a more vibrant city, but they're not really the same IMO.

For example, some of the most urban places I've been have been quiet AND urban (think residential sections of Venice). Wall to wall concrete in claustrophobic pedestrian streets where the buildings nearly block out the light.

Regardless, the Miami examples aren't exactly thunderous in their urban nature. Setbacks, trees, gardens, etc.
It semi-tropical urban city
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,504 posts, read 2,730,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
A lot of people are pointing to Baltimore's blight and walkability. For a place to be urban, it doesn't have to be safe. Urban is the build, not the people. Vibrancy considers the people.
If we're solely focusing on build, what is the most important criteria? Walkability and building layout? Not trying to be snarky, but I'd argue that even though Miami lacks the continuous walkable build of Baltimore, where rowhomes are right next to each other and one can walk the city (despite much of it being blighted/unsafe), its urban build is still thoroughly impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
The first is very unimpressive to me from an urban perspective. Tall buildings - whether residential or commercial - is not enough to create an urban vibe, which has more to do pedestrian activity on the street level than anything. Using NYC as an example, portions of Midtown are among the most dead feeling parts of Manhattan, because you have these giant buildings with little to no commercial storefronts on the ground level. Or in Chicago, Lincoln Park feels a lot more urban than Gold Coast, despite the much higher population density (and big apartment towers) in the latter.

The second isn't in the city limits, so it doesn't count. As I said, Miami Beach is much more urban than Miami.

The third is just a bunch of boring towers again. When I pan to the back, I see a fake downtown lifestyle center. It's not awful, but you can find stuff like that throughout the Sun Belt.
The OP didn't specify if we are talking solely city proper, or if we are including the metro. This is important, because Miami and Seattle are both newer cities with a historic core, and tend to be an intermediate between traditional core urbanity and more modern polynodal sprawl. When speaking of "Miami", most people think of Miami Beach being included, as well as Hialeah, North Miami, Miami Gardens, etc, all of which have decent to high density/urban build. Towson, Dundalk and other surrounding municipalities are much less urban than Baltimore and aren't as easily considered "Baltimore".

Even still, I find Miami city proper to be grossly underrated on this forum, in terms of urbanity. It has a high population density, a grid system with streets that aren't overly wide, tons of skyscrapers over 500 ft, 30 miles of elevated track, decent commuter rail (for the South), large elevated highways and heavy auto traffic. It also has fairly decent pedestrian activity--its just concentrated in Brickell, Downtown/Bayside and Wynwood. And it has several adjacent municipalities with high pedestrian activity, chief among them being Miami Beach. To not include Miami Beach in a discussion about Miami is disingenuous, in my opinion. The closer you get to the water, the more urban "Miami" gets, and Miami Beach is the crown jewel.

And those links that he posted are quite urban, in my eyes. They might not be bursting with pedestrians a la Manhattan, but there are people out and about, or in cafes. If urbanity is solely about build (as has been suggested), you can't discount skyscrapers and highrises in an urban layout just because the pedestrian traffic is relatively sparse. Parts Midtown Manhattan, as you've mentioned, can be a dead zone outside of business hours, but the form is still incredibly urban, even without street level storefronts.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
11,906 posts, read 10,994,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPt111 View Post
Off course it not going be NYC Miami more similar to coastal South American city
There are plenty of examples of walkable urban areas in Latin America.

Mexico City

Bogata

Rio

Buenos Aires

Miami has nothing like these areas in terms of street vibrancy.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Northeast states
10,333 posts, read 7,234,812 times
Reputation: 2704
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
There are plenty of examples of walkable urban areas in Latin America.

Mexico City

Bogata

Rio

Buenos Aires

Miami has nothing like these areas in terms of street vibrancy.
When I was there last month in Brickwell was full of vibrancy and heavy traffic. Brickwell/Downtown and Bayside etc
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