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View Poll Results: Most urban
Seattle 37 22.29%
Baltimore 76 45.78%
Pittsburgh 15 9.04%
Cincinati 7 4.22%
New Orleans 8 4.82%
Miami 23 13.86%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-02-2017, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Northeast states
10,320 posts, read 7,225,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGuyForLife View Post
If we're solely focusing on build, what is the most important criteria? Walkability and building layout? Not trying to be snarky, but I'd argue that even though Miami lacks the continuous walkable build of Baltimore, where rowhomes are right next to each other and one can walk the city (despite much of it being blighted/unsafe), its urban build is still thoroughly impressive.



The OP didn't specify if we are talking solely city proper, or if we are including the metro. This is important, because Miami and Seattle are both newer cities with a historic core, and tend to be an intermediate between traditional core urbanity and more modern polynodal sprawl. When speaking of "Miami", most people think of Miami Beach being included, as well as Hialeah, North Miami, Miami Gardens, etc, all of which have decent to high density/urban build. Towson, Dundalk and other surrounding municipalities are much less urban than Baltimore and aren't as easily considered "Baltimore".

Even still, I find Miami city proper to be grossly underrated on this forum, in terms of urbanity. It has a high population density, a grid system with streets that aren't overly wide, tons of skyscrapers over 500 ft, 30 miles of elevated track, decent commuter rail (for the South), large elevated highways and heavy auto traffic. It also has fairly decent pedestrian activity--its just concentrated in Brickell, Downtown/Bayside and Wynwood. And it has several adjacent municipalities with high pedestrian activity, chief among them being Miami Beach. To not include Miami Beach in a discussion about Miami is disingenuous, in my opinion. The closer you get to the water, the more urban "Miami" gets, and Miami Beach is the crown jewel.

And those links that he posted are quite urban, in my eyes. They might not be bursting with pedestrians a la Manhattan, but there are people out and about, or in cafes. If urbanity is solely about build (as has been suggested), you can't discount skyscrapers and highrises in an urban layout just because the pedestrian traffic is relatively sparse. Parts Midtown Manhattan, as you've mentioned, can be a dead zone outside of business hours, but the form is still incredibly urban, even without street level storefronts.
Wywood limit to several blocks but construction in city of Miami off charts it seem everywhere they building luxury condos and office space
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
11,899 posts, read 10,985,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGuyForLife View Post
If we're solely focusing on build, what is the most important criteria? Walkability and building layout? Not trying to be snarky, but I'd argue that even though Miami lacks the continuous walkable build of Baltimore, where rowhomes are right next to each other and one can walk the city (despite much of it being blighted/unsafe), its urban build is still thoroughly impressive.
Again, I'm just not seeing it. Little Havana has a walkscore of 88. This is not an impressive commercial corridor, by any sense of the term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGuyForLife View Post
The OP didn't specify if we are talking solely city proper, or if we are including the metro. This is important, because Miami and Seattle are both newer cities with a historic core, and tend to be an intermediate between traditional core urbanity and more modern polynodal sprawl. When speaking of "Miami", most people think of Miami Beach being included, as well as Hialeah, North Miami, Miami Gardens, etc, all of which have decent to high density/urban build. Towson, Dundalk and other surrounding municipalities are much less urban than Baltimore and aren't as easily considered "Baltimore".
The OP did specify later in the thread!

Quote:
Are all of your replies going to focus on population density? FYI, this is about cities, not metros. I couldn't care less which cities have more people packed into apartment complexes in its suburbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGuyForLife View Post
Even still, I find Miami city proper to be grossly underrated on this forum, in terms of urbanity. It has a high population density, a grid system with streets that aren't overly wide, tons of skyscrapers over 500 ft, 30 miles of elevated track, decent commuter rail (for the South), large elevated highways and heavy auto traffic. It also has fairly decent pedestrian activity--its just concentrated in Brickell, Downtown/Bayside and Wynwood. And it has several adjacent municipalities with high pedestrian activity, chief among them being Miami Beach. To not include Miami Beach in a discussion about Miami is disingenuous, in my opinion. The closer you get to the water, the more urban "Miami" gets, and Miami Beach is the crown jewel.

And those links that he posted are quite urban, in my eyes. They might not be bursting with pedestrians a la Manhattan, but there are people out and about, or in cafes. If urbanity is solely about build (as has been suggested), you can't discount skyscrapers and highrises in an urban layout just because the pedestrian traffic is relatively sparse. Parts Midtown Manhattan, as you've mentioned, can be a dead zone outside of business hours, but the form is still incredibly urban, even without street level storefronts.
I don't think urbanity is solely about build. There are very "modern" cities which have both vertical relief and good urban form. Tokyo for example. The key is to have retail which is directly on the sidewalk, not hidden away inside of a tower or elevated on a podium.

I find Miami very similar to the LA area. Even in the most suburban areas, things are dense because land is at a premium and yards are very small. But the infrastructure is built around cars, and even though sidewalks are present, very little thought goes into consistent pedestrian-focused design, which is the key to urbanity IMHO. Also, both of them have better walkable fabric in some independent cities at remove from the suburbs (Miami Beach and Santa Monica) than they do within much of the urban core.

Also, I don't give bonus points for density/intensity. IMHO the best density levels for urbanity are Paris-style 5-6 story walkups. Urban planners have discovered once you start getting more vertical than this people tend to spend more time indoors again (similar to the suburbs) and street life starts falling off. So I tend to think it's more important when discussing the urbanity of an area to count up the number of urban neighborhoods which meet a certain threshold, and then give bonus points if they're immediately adjacent to the CBD.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPt111 View Post
When I was there last month in Brickwell was full of vibrancy and heavy traffic. Brickwell/Downtown and Bayside etc
If you say so. Looking through streetview (not only the most recent, but the historic ones) I don't see more than a few people in any of the shots. Of course I don't know what time of day the pictures were taken, but it stands in contrast to the Latin America streetview shots I posted.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:59 AM
 
7,176 posts, read 3,866,252 times
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In all fairness, this is a better example of Little Havana's urbanity. It's akin to parts of Eastern Queens.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/13...!4d-80.2167797

Last edited by gladhands; 08-02-2017 at 08:08 AM..
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:17 AM
 
7,176 posts, read 3,866,252 times
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It also bears mention that Brickell is basically Miami's Financial District. It's urban in nature because IT'S DOWNTOWN.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:17 AM
 
36 posts, read 20,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
No, on all counts. It sounds like you've never been to Seattle.
It sounds like you've never been to a real urban city...
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Northeast states
10,320 posts, read 7,225,131 times
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZp0TPxrWVk&app=desktop
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:28 AM
 
7,176 posts, read 3,866,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPt111 View Post
Do you agree that Brickell is the financial district? Isn't it adjacent to "downtown"? If that's the case, isn't Brickell downtown? The fact remains, that while Miami is more urban than most US cities, the urbanity of neighborhoods outside of the CBD isn't nearly as impressive as some of the other cities in this poll.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPt111 View Post
No one here is disputing that Miami has a great skyline. I see way more cars than people walking around in that video however.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:31 AM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,458 posts, read 2,997,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPt111 View Post
Brickwell area in Miami is most active area south of NYC


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lopg3D19J4
Lol those streets were dead actually. "East Coast cities" certainly have more droves of people walking and using transit. Where were the people at the train stations, and why were all the bike stations full with bikes?

Baltimore wins this thread, just slightly over Seattle.
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