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View Poll Results: PA vs. NY
NY 68 54.40%
PA 57 45.60%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-12-2017, 10:03 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
6,814 posts, read 9,377,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jFug View Post
PA does not lack a beachfront. In fact, it probably boasts some of the best beaches on the Great Lakes







Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post


These are great through and through, but it must be said that NYS has things similar. NYS in terms of lakes has frontage on Lake Erie (needs a bit of work in and around Buffalo), Lake Ontario, Lake Champlain, the Finger Lakes, the Atlantic seaboard in NYC and Long Island as well as the long and wide estuary that is the Hudson Valley. The state of NYC has some pretty major geographic blessings that are uncommon and in many ways underappreciated.
I think Jfug was trying to point out that Pennsylvania does have beaches but as Oycrumbler points out with the sheer amount of water in New York, she is going to blow any Pennsylvania beaches right out of the water - literally LOL.

With some 7,000+ freshwater lakes and ponds, not to mention Lake Ontario, Lake Erie and Lake Champlain, New York is definitely in the top 5 states for lakes. And then on top of that you can the Atlantic Ocean, numerous bays and the Long Island and Block Island Sounds.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:18 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
6,814 posts, read 9,377,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
A lot of the resentment comes from a few different sources.

1. The rest of the country makes assumptions of the whole state based solely on NYC. NYC does not have the best reputation with all Americans being known as rude, self absorbed and materialistic. This also deflects attention away from upstate NY's true identities, for example, Agricultural state, Rust Belt, Appalachian, etc.

As somebody who moved from NY to Louisiana I have first hand experienced the assumptions and ignorance of what is NY state. So much so that a woman from Texas literally accused me of making up my rural history.

2. Politics. This is a big one. A lot of upstaters are moderate or conservative and they are utterly silenced by the overwhelming blue from downstate. This also plays into the national assumption of a New Yorker.

3. Cultural divide. With the exception of transplants and travelers, upstate and downstate NY are two very different worlds. A rushing urbanite from NYC can come off as too rude and disrespectful when visiting more small town and laid back parts of NY. Likewise, some upstaters can come off to people from NYC as backwards and borderline redneck.

This doesn't exactly do any favors for the perception of either side, from either side.

Basically, it doesn't have much to do with finances at all. At least not from upstate's perspective.
The assumptions you talk about is probably helping to drive the vote totals toward Pennsylvania on this thread. New York has a reputation of being a elitist liberal state while Pennsylvania is more balanced and down to the earth, possibly the most balanced in the Northeast. It must be nice to live in a more politically balanced state.

If in contrast the vote was solely based on the environment, outdoor attractions and nature then New York would be the winner. Cities also I would give to New York but other things that the OP was asking like infrastructure I am less sure of.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
1,951 posts, read 1,067,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
Whats the total population of NYC suburban counties? NY State only
MSA level is 4,940,215 for Suburban counties in NY State only.

Combined with NYC it's 13,477,888
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:36 PM
 
52,659 posts, read 75,502,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
The assumptions you talk about is probably helping to drive the vote totals toward Pennsylvania on this thread. New York has a reputation of being a elitist liberal state while Pennsylvania is more balanced and down to the earth, possibly the most balanced in the Northeast. It must be nice to live in a more politically balanced state.

If in contrast the vote was solely based on the environment, outdoor attractions and nature then New York would be the winner. Cities also I would give to New York but other things that the OP was asking like infrastructure I am less sure of.
Yeah, NY outside of NYC is more balanced and even Upstate has some of the stereotypical urban/suburban/rural political aspects to it as well. There are also some surprises where small towns/cities lean D/"liberal" like Hudson, for an example. So, it isn't necessarily black and white in terms of Upstate/Downstate
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:12 PM
 
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From Upstate NY, love NY and PA.

I would rank it: NYC > Philly > Adirondacks > Poconos > Pittsburgh > Buffalo, generally speaking.

PA is like a warmer version of NY. NY is colder and snowier, but both are beautiful geographically. It's also split up between West and East. West says "pop", East says "soda", while NYC and Philly are more similar and Pittsburgh and Buffalo are.

Upstate is also conservative (yikes), and I say that as a lefty (a true lefty, not a liberal) from Upstate. It can be downright isolating sometimes when you leave the cities. PA is the same way.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:15 PM
 
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I believe over 7 million of NYers are in Upstate. NYC area has 12. NYC metro is over 20 million, with 12 being in downstate and the other roughly 8 million in NJ and CT.

So even without NYC, Upstate NY by itself still has over 7 million people. I'm not sure most people realize that.

It is not remotely like Chicago with IL or Boston with MA, where those metros make up about 80% of the population of the state.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:20 PM
 
61 posts, read 31,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Yeah, NY outside of NYC is more balanced and even Upstate has some of the stereotypical urban/suburban/rural political aspects to it as well. There are also some surprises where small towns/cities lean D/"liberal" like Hudson, for an example. So, it isn't necessarily black and white in terms of Upstate/Downstate

You know how Upstate is.

I think a lot of people think that Upstate is the biggest most complete 180 from an urban perspective, but the gap isn't that great. The fact that the urban mecca of America is downstate doesn't mean that Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse or Albany are Littleville, USA. They're areas with metros between 800,000-1.5 million people.

The geography here is also gorgeous. Adirondacks, Mohawk Valley, Hudson Valley, Catskills, etc.

PA operates basically the same way. Gorgeous scenery, but better climate wise in comparison to Upstate, less snow, more sun, more mild temperatures, tons of history, college towns, etc.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpinionatedOne View Post
I believe over 7 million of NYers are in Upstate. NYC area has 12. NYC metro is over 20 million, with 12 being in downstate and the other roughly 8 million in NJ and CT.

So even without NYC, Upstate NY by itself still has over 7 million people. I'm not sure most people realize that.

It is not remotely like Chicago with IL or Boston with MA, where those metros make up about 80% of the population of the state.
Which is still more people than other prominent states out East, like Maryland and Massachusetts. If Upstate where its own state, it would be the 13th, 14th or 15th largest state by population, depending on how you define it. The state of New York as a whole is quite a beast, and worthy of the Empire name, even with the ascension of California, Texas and Florida (which are far larger geographically).
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:28 PM
 
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I definitely pick NY, by a hair. The strong suits for me are NYC, Hudson Valley and the Adirondacks. Hands down the best of what NY has to offer.

For PA, it's the Lehigh Valley, Poconos and Philly. Eastern PA I like better than Western PA, and ditto for Upstate NY. Eastern part is better than Western.
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:32 PM
 
52,659 posts, read 75,502,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGuyForLife View Post
Which is still more people than other prominent states out East, like Maryland and Massachusetts. If Upstate where its own state, it would be the 13th, 14th or 15th largest state by population, depending on how you define it. The state of New York as a whole is quite a beast, and worthy of the Empire name, even with the ascension of California, Texas and Florida (which are far larger geographically).
Exactly and I think people may not realize that NY State is only 30th in land size.

Also, as I mentioned before earlier in the thread, if you just take the regions in the I-90 corridor of Upstate NY and made it a state, that would still have enough people to be about 23-26th in state population rankings right now. So, even with said population losses, there are still a lot of people within a state that is smaller than most in this country in terms of land size. Regions that I am referring to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffal...atistical_Area

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roches...atistical_area

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_New_York

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capita...atistical_Area

People also have to keep in mind that you can move to the suburbs in the NYC metro area and also end up moving to another state. So, you can still leave the state, but be under the influence of the state(particularly NYC) economically.

Also, in regards to the split mentioned previously, this is some information that people in Upstate that want to separate from Downstate need to keep in mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvmkC_-0oeU
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