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I think that sentiment is more of a NYC thing towards PA.
I'd say a difference between the two in terms of outside of the major metro areas is that in NY, you can find small college towns with a more "liberal" vibe and you can also find small/rural towns or more of them with a visible degree of diversity.
So incredibly true. Places like Saratoga Springs, Geneva, Ithaca, Binghamton, etc. definitely have a different vibe than comparable places in PA. I do agree with cpomp that Pittsburgh is a better 2nd city than anything in NYS.
But, is there anything that compares to the beauty and vibe of Saratoga Springs in PA? I'm a serious advocate of the Adirondacks. I haven't found anything nearly as comprehensive or as cohesive as the Adirondacks in PA (chains of crystal clean/clear lakes, nice little towns closely connected, communities with history, etc.). I openly admit that I know much less about PA and am open to being enlightened.
I'm overall greatly in favor of New York though I like Pennsylvania. One major thing I think Pennsylvania has over New York is that Pennsylvania has a strong and fairly large secondary major city in Pittsburgh whereas New York's secondary cities are generally smaller, less historic, and having a rougher time.
So incredibly true. Places like Saratoga Springs, Geneva, Ithaca, Binghamton, etc. definitely have a different vibe than comparable places in PA. I do agree with cpomp that Pittsburgh is a better 2nd city than anything in NYS.
But, is there anything that compares to the beauty and vibe of Saratoga Springs in PA? I'm a serious advocate of the Adirondacks. I haven't found anything nearly as comprehensive or as cohesive as the Adirondacks in PA (chains of crystal clean/clear lakes, nice little towns closely connected, communities with history, etc.). I openly admit that I know much less about PA and am open to being enlightened.
Yes, not only those smaller places you mentioned in NY, but even places that you may be familiar with like Sodus, Lyons, Newark, Medina and Albion come to mind. Some of the small Hudson Valley communities like Hudson, Saugerties, Beacon, Kingston, etc. or small towns in or near the Catskills like Livingston Manor, Ellenville or Chester also come to mind.
College towns like Hamilton, Oneonta, Clinton and New Paltz come to mind in that regard.
I'm overall greatly in favor of New York though I like Pennsylvania. One major thing I think Pennsylvania has over New York is that Pennsylvania has a strong and fairly large secondary major city in Pittsburgh whereas New York's secondary cities are generally smaller, less historic, and having a rougher time.
Albany is the exception, as it was settled in the 17th century and still has some historic areas intact. It has actually had steady growth recently in terms of the city, metro and CSA as well. A lot of the last 2 has to do with Saratoga County, which was NYS's second(nearly first) fastest growing County from 2000-2014 and is the fastest growing County outside of the NYC area in the state.
Albany is the exception, as it was settled in the 17th century and still has some historic areas intact. It has actually had steady growth recently in terms of the city, metro and CSA as well. A lot of the last 2 has to do with Saratoga County, which was NYS's second(nearly first) fastest growing County from 2000-2014 and is the fastest growing County outside of the NYC area in the state.
Right, but Albany feels much smaller than Pittsburgh as both city and metro. Albany feels smaller than Buffalo and Rochester as well, even though it's growing. I'd love for one or more cities upstate to be both sizable and growing as I think it's crucial for New York state to have multiple healthy anchors.
Right, but Albany feels much smaller than Pittsburgh as both city and metro. Albany feels smaller than Buffalo and Rochester as well, even though it's growing. I'd love for one or more cities upstate to be both sizable and growing as I think it's crucial for New York state to have multiple healthy anchors.
There's no question that NYS has no answer for a second, urban and dynamic city that's comparable to Pittsburgh. Buffalo has so much potential, but a terrible economic climate. Rochester, Buffalo, Syracuse all could do so much better if they could attract jobs. High taxes are bad too, especially for cities that have a pretty stagnant economic climate.
Right, but Albany feels much smaller than Pittsburgh as both city and metro. Albany feels smaller than Buffalo and Rochester as well, even though it's growing. I'd love for one or more cities upstate to be both sizable and growing as I think it's crucial for New York state to have multiple healthy anchors.
Yes, that is true. I was initially referring to the historical aspect, as Albany is an old city. Same for Schenectady and Troy.
So incredibly true. Places like Saratoga Springs, Geneva, Ithaca, Binghamton, etc. definitely have a different vibe than comparable places in PA. I do agree with cpomp that Pittsburgh is a better 2nd city than anything in NYS.
But, is there anything that compares to the beauty and vibe of Saratoga Springs in PA? I'm a serious advocate of the Adirondacks. I haven't found anything nearly as comprehensive or as cohesive as the Adirondacks in PA (chains of crystal clean/clear lakes, nice little towns closely connected, communities with history, etc.). I openly admit that I know much less about PA and am open to being enlightened.
Well certainly Pennsylvania is not lacking in terms of cities and towns with immense history, as well. Its smaller cities like Lancaster, York, Bethlehem are loaded with history. There are countless other little burgs, too, actually with quite impressive density and urban fabric (i.e., Jim Thorpe).
I'd also argue that there are rural pockets of more liberal college towns in Pennsylvania (i.e., State College, Carlisle, Lewisburg, Bloomsburg, etc.), but they perhaps don't have the reputation of places like Ithaca or Woodstock, which have provided Upstate New York with at least some sense of more famous liberal identity.
But no, Pennsylvania does not have any answer for the Finger Lakes region. And while Pennsylvania has among the most appealing topography and vegetation in the US (IMO), I'd agree that the Adirondacks are bit more impressive than anything you'd find in PA.
And for record, while I'm no fan of fracking, and particularly what it does the to landscape, let's not overstate its scope (which is often done in the media). It's actually died down quite a bit, regulations have gotten MUCH stricter since the "rush" several years back, and truthfully has only been done intensively in a couple relatively small pockets of the state.
Overall, while I think most folks would give NYS the edge here, it's certainly not because Pennsylvania is lacking--far from it. It's just that NYS is a really tough package to beat among all states.
What I think Pennsylvania has over NYS, however, is a generally slightly milder climate (which means more balanced seasons across most of the state), and more cohesive/dense cities (from what I've gathered, Pennsylvania's urban fabric [which is very dominated by rowhouse architecture] overall compared to similarly sized cities/towns in NYS generally appears more cohesive/dense and conducive to walkability).
Well certainly Pennsylvania is not lacking in terms of cities and towns with immense history, as well. Its smaller cities like Lancaster, York, Bethlehem are loaded with history. There are countless other little burgs, too, actually with quite impressive density and urban fabric (i.e., Jim Thorpe).
I'd also argue that there are rural pockets of more liberal college towns in Pennsylvania (i.e., State College, Carlisle, Lewisburg, Bloomsburg, etc.), but they perhaps don't have the reputation of places like Ithaca or Woodstock, which have provided Upstate New York with at least some sense of more famous liberal identity.
But no, Pennsylvania does not have any answer for the Finger Lakes region. And while Pennsylvania has among the most appealing topography and vegetation in the US (IMO), I'd agree that the Adirondacks are bit more impressive than anything you'd find in PA.
And for record, while I'm no fan of fracking, and particularly what it does the to landscape, let's not overstate its scope (which is often done in the media). It's actually died down quite a bit, regulations have gotten MUCH stricter since the "rush" several years back, and truthfully has only been done intensively in a couple relatively small pockets of the state.
Overall, while I think most folks would give NYS the edge here, it's certainly not because Pennsylvania is lacking--far from it. It's just that NYS is a really tough package to beat among all states.
What I think Pennsylvania has over NYS, however, is a generally slightly milder climate (which means more balanced seasons across most of the state), and more cohesive/dense cities (from what I've gathered, Pennsylvania's urban fabric [which is very dominated by rowhouse architecture] overall compared to similarly sized cities/towns in NYS generally appears more cohesive/dense and conducive to walkability).
A good contribution to this thread. I can't disagree with any of it really.
Fracking scares me most in terms of land ownership FYI. I would love to see it outlawed.
I think that sentiment is more of a NYC thing towards PA.
I'd say a difference between the two in terms of outside of the major metro areas is that in NY, you can find small college towns with a more "liberal" vibe and you can also find some small/rural towns or more of them with a visible degree of diversity.
I think you might be right that it's mainly a NYC thing. Upstate can be conservative too, and a lot of Upstaters complain how blue and liberal NY is and blame NYC for it, which is probably true.
PA is far from the most conservative State, but is definitely much more conservative than NY and the rest of the Northeast except maybe New Hampshire. But PA did vote for Trump though (the only Northeast State) which kind of says a lot about PA compared to NY and other Northeast States.
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