U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: PA vs. NY
NY 68 54.40%
PA 57 45.60%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-07-2017, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Montco PA
2,023 posts, read 4,009,275 times
Reputation: 1373

Advertisements

You can find incomes around the national average in places in lowly PA (other than in the Philadelphia or Pittsburgh areas), believe it or not.

As for appealing areas, have you ever heard of these places?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_...,_Pennsylvania

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasburg,_Pennsylvania

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershey,_Pennsylvania

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milford,_Pennsylvania

Regarding the last one, it's seen an influx of gays from NYC who appreciate its cool vibe and nearby natural beauty while still being only about 1.5 hours outside of the city.

I basically said in my previous post that NY beats PA but I don't get the appeal of NY's small towns with harsh winters that are 4 hours from the largest big city. I have driven to and visited Ithaca several times and while yes it is a pleasant town it is very remote.

Last edited by BPP1999; 08-07-2017 at 05:35 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-07-2017, 05:37 PM
 
52,731 posts, read 75,655,874 times
Reputation: 11636
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPP1999 View Post
You can find incomes around the national average in places in lowly PA (other than in the Philadelphia or Pittsburgh areas), believe it or not.

As for appealing areas, have you ever heard of these places?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_...,_Pennsylvania

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasburg,_Pennsylvania

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershey,_Pennsylvania

I basically said in my previous post that NY beats PA but I don't get the appeal of NY's small towns with harsh winters that are 4 hours from the largest big city. I have driven to and visited Ithaca several times and while yes it is a pleasant town it is very remote.
I believe it and why I asked, as others may not know or there may be places people aren't not familiar with.

I actually was at the 3rd community listed a little over a month ago and liked it.

Many of the other areas in upstate actually still have a lot to offer and may depend on what you may like to do. Many people may not know that areas such as Buffalo, Rochester Albany-Schenectady-Troy and Syracuse are all in the top 100 in terms of metro, urban area and combined statistical area population. So, it is more populated than people may think it is and these areas are all within 4 hours or so from each other. To put this into perspective, if you just took the areas/regions that are in that 4 hour stretch of the I-90 corridor in upstate NY, its population is on par with the state of SC currently and would be about 25th in state population.

You also have small communities like these that are within metro areas: Home (Syracuse metro)

Clinton, New York: Historic Village of Clinton, NY Shopping & Entertainment Travel Guide (Utica-Rome metro)

Village of Brockport, NY (Rochester metro)

Village of East Aurora, NY (Buffalo metro)

https://www.villageofowego.com/ (Binghamton metro)
Historic Owego Marketplace

Village of Ballston spa (Albany-Schenectady-Troy metro)
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-New-York.html

Sackets Harbor, Jefferson County, New York (Watertown-Fort Drum metro area)

Village of Trumansburg, NY (Ithaca metro)
Trumansburg, NY Area, Finger Lakes Region

Home (Jamestown micro area)
Nearby: Chautauqua Institution
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2017, 06:01 PM
 
3,803 posts, read 1,357,609 times
Reputation: 3449
NY wins on just about every measure

NY has NYC - PA has Philly
NY has the Atlantic Ocean - PA has no ocean frontage
NY has the Adirondacks - PA has the Poconos
NY has the Statue of Liberty - PA has the Rocky Statue
NY has hundreds of miles of frontage on two Great Lakes - PA has a tens of miles of frontage on one Great Lake
NY has three separate sections of the 167ft single tier Niagara Falls - PA has the 150ft three-tiered Raymondskill Falls
NY has the Hudson River - PA has the Delaware River
NY has Long Island with the Hamptons and great beaches - PA has Three Mile Island with a nuke plant
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2017, 08:15 PM
 
Location: The mountain of Airy
5,148 posts, read 4,997,946 times
Reputation: 3418
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMS02760 View Post
NY wins on just about every measure

NY has NYC - PA has Philly
NY has the Atlantic Ocean - PA has no ocean frontage
NY has the Adirondacks - PA has the Poconos
NY has the Statue of Liberty - PA has the Rocky Statue
NY has hundreds of miles of frontage on two Great Lakes - PA has a tens of miles of frontage on one Great Lake
NY has three separate sections of the 167ft single tier Niagara Falls - PA has the 150ft three-tiered Raymondskill Falls
NY has the Hudson River - PA has the Delaware River
NY has Long Island with the Hamptons and great beaches - PA has Three Mile Island with a nuke plant
I love both, but this is funny. LMFAO at the Rocky Statue and Three Mile Island.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2017, 08:54 PM
 
2,092 posts, read 1,100,297 times
Reputation: 1365
Pennsylvania's lack of an Atlantic coast kind of hurts it here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
3,671 posts, read 4,313,721 times
Reputation: 4553
Let me get this out of the way; I have a love affair with PA so I am a bit biased, but I have my reasons.

I was born and raised in the Twin Tiers (look it up). I have lived in both states but mostly in the southern tier of NY.

I love both. I love upstate NY, I love PA; but I love PA more and you'll see why.

Landscape: Both states are beautiful. They are both in the Appalachian/Allegheny ranges, they both have great lakes coasts, and they both have miles and miles of rolling hill farmland. Objectively, they are equal in this regard.

NY has more flat land and vast swamps, as well as the finger lakes. PA has much denser mountains and deeper valleys, being partially south of the glaciated region. It's a trade off based on your personal preferences!

The forestry in northern NY and southern PA are very different. Southern PA has that mixed Appalachian forest, and northern NY has the far north-woods spruce/tundra forest going on. Again, up to your personal tastes. Most of the two states are pretty much the same in this category overall though.

While NY has gorgeous hill country and some breath-taking mountains of its own, it cannot compete with parts of PA in terms of "waves of land" between mountain ridges. A drive from Williamsport south-west down the valley will show you what I mean. Nowhere in NY has that same dramatic view due to glaciation and broad valleys. PA's deep valley region is also amazing, the real grand canyon of the east is definitely here.

On the flip side, PA cannot compete with the Finger Lakes. If gigantic lakes are your passion, this is where NY trounces PA visually. The north side of the lakes are flat wetlands utterly dominated by farms and small country towns. The south ends are hilly rugged valleys that seem to plunge into the water like cascading rocks. If vineyards are something you like, the Finger lakes will satisfy that itch too. NY too, has Long Island. PA does not have an ocean coast.

Economy: Let's be honest, they are fairly equal here. Both states are run down with sprinkles of grand wealth to keep up the image. Upstate NY is in pretty much the same boat as PA here without NYC to off-set the reports. However, it could be worse. It could always be worse...

Note: I am aware that both states have some very nice towns too.

Politics: This is why I personally prefer PA by a long shot. If you cut downstate out of NY, the two states would be political twins. Purple swing-states. Sadly, that is not the case as downstate NY is still part of NY overall.

As a result, NY state is too liberal. I dislike extremes in either direction, PA is generally more middle ground. NY's political atmosphere is suffocating. It's preachy, intrusive, self-absorbed and downright aggravating. Not every NY native is like that (not at all), but that sort always seem to be in control of the media/local politics.

Just as an example, people from Ithaca (a very very liberal city) will go to neighboring counties to protest industries trying to move into the region. The region, by the way, that has nothing but wineries to support it. These rich liberals will literally rob people of jobs just to go home and feel smug about it. This. Happens. All. The. Time.

Ithaca would not be so influential on the state if the overwhelming power from downstate/Albany wasn't so solidly blue. With the big-wigs support, things like fracking are banned outright despite how badly the southern tier needs an industry.

Basic freedoms suffer here too. Cigarettes are ridiculously expensive in NY. Taxed to hell and back just so the bleeding-hearts can find another way to control your personal choices.

The only thing NY does better than PA as far as personal freedoms is alcohol. Somehow, PA has tighter booze laws. *shrug*

New York is also in heavy denial about its reality. If you ask a well-to-do person from out east, it's as if they have no idea that the western half of the state even exists for anything other than second homes on the lakes. "There are no poor people in NY" "There are no rural problems in NY" "NY isn't rust-belt" "NY has nothing in common with Appalachia" (and yes, I have witnessed this next one) "There are no major drug problems in NY"-These are all weirdly held beliefs by the people "on-top" in this state. "Ignore the problem and it will go away" seems to be their answer to NY's troubles. We're talking about a state that barely wants to admit when a tornado hits! Rose-tinted glasses, the state.

I could go on forever about NY's extreme politics so I'll end it here. PA is a little better here, and this is a big reason I prefer it.

Personality: PA is way better here, too. PA isn't perfect, and NY isn't all bad, but overall PA is less... clannish? NY has this weird vibe of being incredibly insular and hostile to outside business and ideas, while convincing itself that its ways are the best without question. And a lot of this attitude comes from the big liberal players, NYC, Albany, and Cornell college/Ithaca. This is one area where I feel NY is more in line with New England. Very "NY first" in practice.

Now, PA has that going on too, just to a much lesser degree overall. Philly is just as up its own butt as NYC is, frankly.

NY also seems to tax businesses right out of the state. Not a good model.

There's a reason a lot of upstaters want to break away from Downstate, and seriously consider adopting a lot of PA's governing methods.

Climate: Basically the same. NY has a bit more snow, PA is has slightly hotter summers in places. Not too different.

I won't bother touching on the metros too much. If you like massive heart-pounding thrill-ride cities, NYC is your go-to. PA doesn't have anything to stand toe to toe with NYC. However, PA's cities and Upstate NY's cities are quite comparable.

I'm a country/small town guy so that's all I can really say about the cities.

Last edited by CookieSkoon; 08-08-2017 at 03:03 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Rochester
836 posts, read 1,560,058 times
Reputation: 1109
Of course I'm biased, but I think New York blows Pennsylvania out of the water that the latter state lacks. Any criteria you can imagine, it's hard to argue against the Empire State's superiority over its neighbor to the south. That's not to take away anything from the Keystone State, which I do appreciate very much, but come on. New York City alone is enough to put the state over the edge, I believe. Penn's Woods come back a little bit when you compare upstate cities which, while great, fall short of the great City of Pittsburgh. But that's about where it ends. Allentown? Scranton? Williamsport? Erie? No contest. My least favorite city of all time is Johnstown, PA. Yuck! I also prefer the Adirondacks over the Poconos, Letchworth to Ohiopyle and the Hudson over the Susquehanna. While highly respectable, the commonwealth as a whole is just in a tier below New York State.

Just for fun, let's break it down to each city. When each state's respective metros face off...

New York City vs. Philadelphia:

Two powerhouses in not only their states, but also the two largest in the BosWash corridor. It may not seem fair to compare the two on the surface (NYC is almost triple the size of Philly after all), but Pennsylvania's premier city can hold its own, and does punch above its weight. Center City almost feel like a slice of Manhattan in some respects. Probably more similar than they are different, the Five Boroughs still win. Naturally, it has so much more to offer from culture to transit, economy to food, architecture to sports, nightlife to beauty. Realistically, Philly probably only wins when you consider affordability as it is far less expensive than the Big Apple.

Winner: New York City

Buffalo vs. Pittsburgh:

Like the largest cities, these two have a ton in common. Both are interior northeast cities hit hard by economic decline now experiencing a successful resurgence. The Steel City is twice the size of New York's Queen City, but feels even larger than that. Downtown is comparable to that of a city in the top 15. Neighborhoods like Oakland wipe the floor with the bustling Elmwood Village. Still though, it's competitive. Pittsburgh may very well have the most beautiful natural setting of any city in the United States, but within Buffalo's metro is Niagara Falls, one of the world's natural wonders. Pitt wins vibrancy, arts, walkability, recreation and safety. Buffalo takes cost of living, food and arguably location with its proximity to the Golden Horseshoe, which I'll note, if considered part of the Buffalo metro, makes this city far more comparable to Pittsburgh.

Winner: Pittsburgh

Rochester vs. Allentown:

The third largest cities of NY and PA are also rust belt cities slowly climbing out of their slumps. Late bloomers to revitalization, Allentown and Rochester are both reinventing their downtown areas. Rochester is the bigger city by a pretty good margin, though to the credit of the Lehigh Valley, Allentown's urban population is close and it is more dense. Nearby Bethlehem, PA is a charming area of the metro. Rochester is lush with culture with solid urban neighborhoods and is centered in the breathtaking Finger Lakes region of New York. Despite no longer possessing the powerhouses of Xerox, Kodak and Bausch & Lomb, it is healthy by upstate standards and offers big city culture with small town charm. The Roc wins comfortably with urbanity, culture, education, outdoor activities and affordability. The A hands down has the better location, climate and crime rate.

Winner: Rochester


Albany vs. Harrisburg:

The battle of the state capitals I'm afraid would be a short one. Albany is one of the earliest settled cities in the United States with a rich history and the bones to show for it. Economically, it is Upstate's healthiest region with high tech industry including nanotechnology at the forefront. Harrisburg has a nice setting, but unfortunately is a mixed bag and facing a fiscal crisis with not a whole lot to offer.

Winner: Albany

Syracuse vs. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre:

As we move into the smaller tier cities, the matchups become a bit more lopsided in favor of New York. As you travel along I-81, the lines between these metros are somewhat blurred making them feel like worthy opponents. While both areas have their issues, Central New York has fared far better than the Wyoming Valley. I know Scranton is beginning to bounce back, but Syracuse is undeniably the more desirable city, especially with SU fueling much of the vibrancy and amenities the city enjoys. It is pretty cool that The Offfice was set in Scranton, but hanging out in The 'Cuse is a blast that can put many larger cities to shame.

Winner: Syracuse

Utica vs. Lancaster:

These two cities have a bit more in contrast than most of these other comparisons. Utica has definitely seen better days and is in a pretty isolated part of a struggling region of the state. Lancaster is a charming little city enjoying success in tourism, healthcare and the arts. Interestingly, both have sizable Amish populations nearby.

Winner: Lancaster

That's 4-2 NY! Now we've settled who has the better cities . In all seriousness though, Pennsylvania has a ton to offer and is a fine neighbor that compliments the northeast quite well. Depending on your lifestyle and interests, it'll be easy to fall in love with Pennsylvania over New York and it definitely beats the latter in many ways.

Last edited by 585WNY; 08-08-2017 at 03:45 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 08:25 AM
 
Location: New York City
4,878 posts, read 4,521,662 times
Reputation: 2208
Quote:
Originally Posted by 585WNY View Post
Of course I'm biased, but I think New York blows Pennsylvania out of the water that the latter state lacks. .
I think you need to touch up on your definition of "blowing something out of the water" New York might certainly edge out PA in many catergories, but don't be dramatic. If you were comparing New York to Kansas, sure, but NY to PA is a solid match.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
1,951 posts, read 1,072,977 times
Reputation: 1642
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
The only thing NY does better than PA as far as personal freedoms is alcohol. Somehow, PA has tighter booze laws. *shrug*
I almost ignored your post because of your political rant, but this ^^^^ is true.

What's up with PA liquor laws? Wine and liquor are only sold in special stores owned and regulated by the government (and have inconvenient hours), plus beer is only sold in beer distributor stores, which also tend to have inconvenient hours. You can't go into a regular supermarket, drug store, bodega/deli and get a beer...
Plus there's an early 2am last call, which I know is typical for most States, but it definitely doesn't help.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:06 AM
 
Location: New York City
4,878 posts, read 4,521,662 times
Reputation: 2208
Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
I almost ignored your post because of your political rant, but this ^^^^ is true.

What's up with PA liquor laws? Wine and liquor are only sold in special stores owned and regulated by the government (and have inconvenient hours), plus beer is only sold in beer distributor stores, which also tend to have inconvenient hours. You can't go into a regular supermarket, drug store, bodega/deli and get a beer...
Plus there's an early 2am last call, which I know is typical for most States, but it definitely doesn't help.
This past year the state eased up a tiny bit on liquor purchases. Grocery stores are finally stocking their shelves with wine and beer. (that is a huge improvement).


The 2am last call I dont really care about, but I think it would benefit Philadelphia to have a 4am option.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top