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View Poll Results: Main City of the Sunbelt(besides LA) & Southeast
Atlanta 66 55.00%
Charlotte 1 0.83%
Dallas 29 24.17%
Houston 38 31.67%
Kansas City 1 0.83%
Miami 12 10.00%
Memphis 2 1.67%
Nashville 3 2.50%
New Orleans 2 1.67%
Phoenix 8 6.67%
St.Louis 1 0.83%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-23-2017, 03:14 PM
 
Location: 352
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There is no capital of the sunbelt, as it stretches from California to the Carolinas. Atlanta is the undisputed capital of the southeast. Houston, Dallas, and Phoenix can fight over capital of southwest. But no one city rules the entire belt. There's way too many cities and too large of an area to let one city stake claim.

 
Old 08-23-2017, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Do not agree with this at all.
At the least, Houston is more like the Deep South geographically as it is in the coastal plain region.
 
Old 08-23-2017, 03:18 PM
 
1,865 posts, read 997,841 times
Reputation: 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeOrange View Post
The term "Sun Belt" was coined back in the late 1960's by author Kevin Phillips. His direct definition was the southern 1/3 of the US from Florida to California, so unless the definition has changed over the years I don't see how it's not a "full-blown" sun belt city.
Yes I realize that. But it's also used to describe cities that boomed post-WWII, predominately around cars. Most of them were in the South & West. LA is one of those cities that boomed before and after WWII. It is a lot of more urban than say Phoenix, but way more car-centric and suburban than NYC, Chicago, Philly, etc. NOLA is also in the South, but not labeled a "sunbelt city."
 
Old 08-23-2017, 03:25 PM
 
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Hard to say, and particularly harder given the criteria. If people go by the census designation, the primary city in the south would in all likelihood would be DC, problem solved. Granted, DC isn't southern in very many senses. Outside of that, the primary four powers in the south would be Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Houston (if we are discussing a 5th member of that group, I think depending on criteria, Orlando, Tampa, Charlotte, would probably be the most significant contenders).

When I consider the two Texas cities (and I don't mean this to offend anyone), but I tend to think of Houston as being more cosmopolitan in nature, and Dallas as being more Texan in mentality (though both have a relatively global mindset/diversity). Dallas is bigger than Houston, however, Houston is more important as a port city, seems to have more recognizable company names, and I believe has a decently larger GDP than Dallas (it is truly a beast there). I have a difficult time making a case for Dallas being more powerful and influential than Houston (though perhaps others can try), and thus, I would eliminate Dallas.

Miami is probably the most famous and international of this group. In fact, it is the only one of this 4 (and one of 6 in the US currently) classified as an Alpha World City. It is also likely the most urban of this group (though I think not many would disagree when I say it isn't exactly the most friendly/inviting urbanity one has ever seen, in terms of fabric). This would cause it to be strong among the candidate list, save for two things I would highlight: Because it is more of an American gateway to Latin America and vice versa, it does not remotely have a southern feel. Also, Miami's economy seems to be notably less strong than these other cities, so it's out for me.

That leaves me with Houston and Atlanta, which I'm not completely sure how to approach. Economically, by almost every measure except for perhaps significance/fame of the corporate HQs located there, would seem to win economically. However, Atlanta, despite what I believe to be a smaller foreign born population, seems to retain a more international feel. It seems to have a number of hub attractions popular to outsiders, more than the others, but yet also retains a much more "southern" vibe than the others. It has the airport, it is probably the best for "REI types" out of this group, and it has an established history as being "Capital of the South" (self given nickname I presume). So, one of these two, but I don't think it's entirely clear cut either, compared to the other regions of the US.

The other fact that muddles things is the criteria you gave, which are quality attractions, but may not account for true power and influence which would make a place a "main city". Nothing wrong with them, just saying it provides many answers

Business/Economy: Houston (is this the biggie?)
Growth: None are doing poorly, but Dallas and Houston are booming out of their minds.
Density: Single neighborhood architectural density would be NOLA, citywide density will be Miami
Downtown: Define "downtown". Miami probably has the biggest downtown out of the group, but Nashville and Austin probably have the nicest/most inviting downtowns out of the group.
Tourism: International? Miami or Orlando Domestic? Definitely Orlando, unless were counting Vegas in which case it's close. Atlanta does pretty well too.
Transit: Atlanta
Food: All decent cities anymore have a number of great food spots IMO, but New Orleans is one of the few where hitting up food spots would be a central focus of the trip, so I'll vote there.
Sports: Dallas comes out on top here with the Big 5 and College Sports within the metro, and events hosted. No other metro can say they have it all like that (perhaps Miami if they ever get things figured out with the Beckham deal)
Urban Feel: I tend to say New Orleans, Charleston, etc. Of course, in some ways, those cities have a more limiting "urban feel" than a larger one like Miami or Dallas would, but that's still what I'm going with.
Metro Area: As a whole, I don't know if my bias showed at all, but I think out of these, I like Atlanta the best. I like that it has a relatively interesting history, and has a number of walkable preserved in town neighborhoods, that it has a number of "one of a kind" visitor attractions like CFBHOF in addition to at least regional if not national class local institutions (gardens, theatre, art, etc.). I like that it almost is sort of a "Denver of the East", in that it isn't immediately in mountains, but one can get to them and their fantastic hiking and much cooler weather within an easy day or even half day trip, and it has a number of other things I value like a large airport, plenty of sports, cool local parks, etc. But, saying that makes it the "best" metro area is a subjective thought on my end.
 
Old 08-23-2017, 04:49 PM
 
Location: The Dirty South.
1,567 posts, read 1,307,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Do not agree with this at all.
Explain.
 
Old 08-23-2017, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,209 posts, read 25,902,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfoe View Post
Explain.
You actually think Atlanta has little in common with Montgomery, AL? Or Jackson, Ms? Compared to Houston? The Deep South isn't just only thought of as areas bordering the Gulf Coast (and even then, there has been arguments that there is a difference between Deep South and Gulf Coast), but the very central parts of Southern states of Mississippi, Alabama, North Louisiana, Central and South Georgia.
 
Old 08-23-2017, 05:31 PM
 
1,517 posts, read 985,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfoe View Post
Explain.
Without controversy, Atlanta is literally part of the Deep South, which means its culture is, by definition, part of the culture of the Deep South. The same cannot be said for Houston.
 
Old 08-23-2017, 05:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
Without controversy, Atlanta is literally part of the Deep South, which means its culture is, by definition, part of the culture of the Deep South. The same cannot be said for Houston.
There *is* controversy though as there really is no one agreed-upon definition of the Deep South. Personally I don't think it corresponds 100% to state lines; south Georgia is the Deep South but north Georgia? Not so much.

But this is really neither here nor there; Atlanta doesn't have to be Deep South to be the most Southern among "the Big Four." It is well within the interior of the South whereas the other three are on the fringes and have been more susceptible to the influences of bordering regions.
 
Old 08-23-2017, 06:11 PM
 
Location: California x North Carolina (soon)...
3,320 posts, read 2,241,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGuyForLife View Post
What is your definition of Greater Mobile? The Mobile CSA is only ~600,000, while Wikipedia lists a labor force profile from 2011 of 1.2 million within 60 miles.

Regardless, I find your analysis of Atlanta's sphere of influence to be the reason why I consider it to be the primate city of the South. Miami's influence is South Florida and the Caribbean, with most countries there not even considered American territories. Houston and Dallas each rule their respective regions of Texas, with some spillover into Louisiana for both, but they kind of cancel each other out. Atlanta's metro is larger than the next three closest and traditionally Southern metros (Charlotte, Nashville and Memphis) combined.





Not to digress into a "what's Southern debate", but what areas of the South aren't Sunbelt? There are areas of the Sunbelt that aren't considered "the South" (Phoenix, San Diego, etc.), but conversely what areas in "the South" aren't considered Sunbelt? The only Southern state that I can think of that would be excluded is West Virginia, due to sunshine hours and declining demographics, and that is a crossroads of regions. Are you thinking of the term in purely physical terms, or in economic ones?

When looking at both factors, I think West Virginia is the only Southern state that isn't in the Sunbelt. I've heard of the 36th parallel as the deciding line, but that would imply that Kentucky and Virginia are not Sunbelt states. Not so sure that's the case, given the former's sunshine, especially in its southwest portion, and the latter's population growth plus sunshine.

MAP: Here Are The Parts Of The US That Get The Most Sunshine - Business Insider

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...unbelt/431838/
1. I did say Alabama with the exception of Mobile...Alabama minus Greater Mobile has roughly 4.3 million persons...

2. The Virginias are largely not considered Sunbelt. A case can be made that Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads typify some Sunbelt qualities, but they carry a diverse enough personality in both that isn't enough Sunbelt to fully be considered so...

Baltimore averages more annual sunshine than Richmond by three full days, so your sunshine point is shaky. If Baltimore isn't considered Sunbelt for all of its sunshine, neither is Richmond or other Virginia locales. And Virginia, outside of Northern Virginia specifically, definitely does NOT have Sunbelt growth rates, so let's toss that argument of yours out the window behind the other one...

3. Sunbelt to me has no meaningful use. As a part of convo I take it as both economic and physical usage, but truly the term is utterly meaningless to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
There *is* controversy though as there really is no one agreed-upon definition of the Deep South. Personally I don't think it corresponds 100% to state lines; south Georgia is the Deep South but north Georgia? Not so much.

But this is really neither here nor there; Atlanta doesn't have to be Deep South to be the most Southern among "the Big Four." It is well within the interior of the South whereas the other three are on the fringes and have been more susceptible to the influences of bordering regions.
I have no clue how North Georgia isn't Deep South to you. You must only mean Atlanta (even Atlanta is debatable, though)? Certainly, outside if Atlanta, there are many areas in North Georgia that are very reminiscent of Deep South characteristics....UNG (University of North Georgia) is in Hall County/Gainesville. There s no way Gainesville isn't the Deep South lol...
 
Old 08-23-2017, 06:38 PM
 
12,906 posts, read 20,974,770 times
Reputation: 4076
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfoe View Post
If you would have said Atlanta is the capital of the southEAST I would agree. However saying Atlanta is the capital of the entire south with Houston and Dallas included is laughable. Both Dallas and especially Houston have bigger economies and a higher gdp than Atlanta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
If it's the Southeast, it's Atlanta. If it's the South in general. It's a mix of four cities (Miami, Houston, Atlanta, Dallas). If it's the entire sunbelt, there is simply no main city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirrob View Post
Yea, Atlanta is the main city of the South. Houston is second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag View Post
I feel like this question can go two ways. If the question is which is the most global city in the South, it's Houston. But if you are asking which is the "center of the South" it goes tin atlanta because Atlanta definitely the South. Some cities here like Houston, Dallas and Miami have southern influence but nothing like being in the Deep South like Atlanta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfoe View Post
Houston has more in common with the deep south than Atlanta. Atlanta is more pedimont southern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Atlanta is seen as more unquestionably Southern, but the "Deep South" thing is questionable, depending on how the region is defined. At the least, it can be said that Atlanta is located well within the interior of the South while the other cities are located more along the fringes of the region and thus have more extra-regional influences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taynxtlvl View Post
This!

Atlanta has a huge pull among a large area of the south. However Houston and Dallas' pull is even greater but falls out into other regions. especially Dallas which is almost a 1/3 west, 1/3 (plains) and 1/3 south/southeast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
There *is* controversy though as there really is no one agreed-upon definition of the Deep South. Personally I don't think it corresponds 100% to state lines; south Georgia is the Deep South but north Georgia? Not so much.

But this is really neither here nor there; Atlanta doesn't have to be Deep South to be the most Southern among "the Big Four." It is well within the interior of the South whereas the other three are on the fringes and have been more susceptible to the influences of bordering regions.




The American South
Georgia
South Carolina
Alabama
Mississippi
Tennessee
North Carolina
Louisiana
Arkansas (including Missouri south of U.S. Route 60)
Kentucky (minus Cincinnati suburbs, including Missouri Bootheel)
North Florida (north of Orlando)
South Virginia (from just north of Charlottesville on southward, including most of Shenandoah Valley and the part of West Virginia south of Charleston...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southe...ia?wprov=sfti1 )


Capital of The American South: Atlanta



The Deep South
South Carolina
Alabama
Mississippi
Louisiana
Georgia
North Florida
Sisters of the Deep South: Western Tennessee and The Arkansas Delta


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_South
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_Delta
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