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First things first the full quote on Pittsburgh referenced the fact that not only is it not considered a southern city despite it's metro having suburbs and institutions in West Virginia it is also not seen as a gateway to the south either despite that fact. It is considered as a gateway to the Northeast coming from the South or Midwest rather than a gateway to the south for obvious reasons. The geography and culture of Pittsburgh preclude it from being in the South, facts matter and in this case do get in the way of a nice story. Charlotte is in a similar situation concerning it's location in or as a gateway to the Upland South rather than the Deep South. Similar to Pittsburgh it's a major multi state metro that reaches into other regions but not substantially enough to impact it's identity as a Northeast gateway rather than a Southern one and in Charlotte's case an Upland South gateway rather than a Deep South one. That is pretty much an apples to apples comparison of major multi state metros and it's not hard to see.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Sir, you absolutely missed the part where I stated that I wasn't arguing that Charlotte is a Deep South city because it really isn't. However, Charlotte has absolutely functioned as a gateway city to the Deep South and I have extensively demonstrated that. You're simply trying to muddle the waters by mentioning the Old South because I argued my point successfully
I do concur it isn't Deep South, but as was mentioned being close to another region (as is evidenced by Pittsburgh not being a gateway to the South) is not enough to make an area a gateway to said region. Often time that is dependent on culture of the city, metro and region as well as how much of the geography overlaps. In Charlotte's case as in Pittsburgh the gateway comment works in a specific way ( Upland South only) and not generally or both ways. It seems that the term "gateway has been used flippantly and frankly overused and causes confusion like this.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
, and you're here to set me straight right? All the while conveniently ignoring the fact that I never argued that Charlotte was a Deep South city, but that it has functioned as a gateway to the Deep South. I didn't even mention anything about the Old South so there's no conflation on my part whatsoever.
Not out to set you straight LOL! just asserting that facts matter and they do get in the way of stories and misplaced narritives. Earlier you were asserting that all Piedmont cities could claim to have Deep South and Upland South roots. In this case the facts don't support your narrative and I'm fine with that. Being accurate and factual is the goal.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
makes no sense whatsoever; even you yourself acknowledge this when you acknowledged the inclusion of parts of FL and TX (and conceded part of NC) in the Deep South. Cultural/geographic/physiographical regions do not correspond to state borders. And to say that a state line is cultural in nature is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard. You sound more and more like this OT dude with each post.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
No it wouldn't becsuse Columbia and Charleston aren't gateways to the Deep South; they are actually Deep South cities. You keep shooting yourself in the foot and seem to be oblivious to it.
Both post here (Corresponding to state borders/ Charleston Charlotte) address the same point, I disagree and assert that NC and SC are very different states and in this case the Deep South culture of South Carolina and the Upper South culture of North Carolina do correspond to it's state line. It seems that my point about Columbia and Charleston being Deep South as opposed to Charlotte was easily understood, that's good. If your logic was supported by facts Charlotte, Charleston, and Columbia, all cities in the Carolinas would be much more alike and as you noted that's not the case, it more than likely would be if the Carolinas were one state. It is further proof that the SC/NC border does have a cultural impact and it does mean something in this case.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Western TN and eastern NC are within the Deep South as they are coastal plain regions that relied heavily on slave-based agrarianism. That's not true of the Piedmont and Appalachian parts of those states.
Historically (meaning in the antebellum era) this was the case. Modern geography for the most part precludes Western Tn and Eastern NC from being included. There is disagreement among geography scholars about those areas and as of current day the Western TN and Eastern NC supporters have not won out thus those areas are not generally accepted as Deep South.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
at this point, I'm almost certain you and OT are the same person. Your writing styles, deflection methods, and misplaced arguments are practically identical, and like OT, you never concede you were mistaken about anything even when you've been extensively schooled on an issue but only resort to "I get what you're saying" (except you don't appear to). None of the actual Birmingham posters even go to the lengths you do to make Birmingham appear as a highly unique city while getting all sorts of things wrong about other cities in the process. I see you.
I'm not but thanks, I'll leave it at that.
Last edited by cherokee48; 05-11-2018 at 07:51 PM..
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Nashville is more Mid-south than upper south. That's not made up either, the Mid-south is a real regional identity. I've seen Tennesseans refer to themselves as being from the Mid-south before. There's even a Mid-south banking company in that area.
Nashville is more Mid-south than upper south. That's not made up either, the Mid-south is a real regional identity. I've seen Tennesseans refer to themselves as being from the Mid-south before. There's even a Mid-south banking company in that area.
I thought I was the only one who thought this. I never heard Nashville referred to as Upper South until about five years ago on here, and it's stuck. So maybe things have changed and that's an identity the city feels closer to now, but I don't think that's a historical identification for the city...
Same thing with North Carolina. First of all on here is the only place I've ever heard of Eastern NC as "Deep South", and Upper South is not really a local identification, either...
My comprehension of "Upper South" has always been those northernmost border areas with blended cultural traits of adjacent regions: MD, VA, WV, KY. Most people don't think of Maryland as southern today, and there are parts of all four that have stronger southern characteristics, but these are the Upper South states to me, period. I guess people just define it differently...
So pretty much we're confusing Mid-South and Piedmont with Upper South?
OP should've clarified that.
Yea it seems most people have their own ideas about all these regions and are not aware that there is an actual definition of each region and that is at least part of the confusion. Without established definitions/facts nothing is clear.
Upland/Upper South :
The Encyclopædia Britannica defines the Upper South as the states of North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Kentucky, and West Virginia. The Upland South is defined by landforms rather than states but encompasses the same general region. The Upper/Upland South is also described in the Encyclopædia Britannica as the "Yeoman South", in contrast to the "Plantation South".[5]
These two definitions cover the same general area. The Upland South, not being defined by state lines, includes parts of Lower South states, such as northwestern South Carolina (the Upstate), North Georgia, North Alabama (and, in some definitions, Central Alabama), and eastern Oklahoma. It also includes parts of some Northern states, such as Southern Illinois (the Shawnee Hills), Southern Indiana, and Southern Ohio. Sometimes northeastern Mississippi and western Maryland are included as well.
Mid South: The Mid-South is an informally-defined region of the United States, usually thought to be anchored by the Memphis metropolitan area and consisting of West Tennessee, North Mississippi, Southern Missouri, Western Kentucky, Central, Northeast, and Northwest Arkansas, and Northwest Alabama.[2] Southern Illinois (especially Cairo, shown on the map) is sometimes included in this region.
Piedmont:The Piedmont is a plateau region located in the eastern United States. It sits between the Atlantic Coastal Plain and the main Appalachian Mountains, stretching from New Jersey in the north to central Alabama in the south.
There's nothing that can really make me view anywhere in Tennessee as Upper South, because as I stated, to me the Upper South is the border states with blended cultural influences to a higher degree...
I can appreciate that in somebody's "official" definition, they'd consider Nashville Upper South. But geography in America is fluid and the "official" definitions are consistently at odds with public perception in a number of regions, and are subject to change with time...
So again, I appreciate that others may see Nashville as Upper South. I don't, I can't, which is why I've refrained from the poll, and I don't think my stance is any more right than theirs, or vice versa. It's just a difference of opinion...
There's nothing that can really make me view anywhere in Tennessee as Upper South, because as I stated, to me the Upper South is the border states with blended cultural influences to a higher degree...
I can appreciate that in somebody's "official" definition, they'd consider Nashville Upper South. But geography in America is fluid and the "official" definitions are consistently at odds with public perception in a number of regions, and are subject to change with time...
So again, I appreciate that others may see Nashville as Upper South. I don't, I can't, which is why I've refrained from the poll, and I don't think my stance is any more right than theirs, or vice versa. It's just a difference of opinion...
Birmingham has the Upper South’s geography, but it’s culture is very Deep South. Birmingham also has characteristics of the Piedmont; Birmingham, Atlanta, and Charlotte look a lot alike.
In the same breath, Birmingham and Nashville look very similar too, but Nashville is the epitome of Upper South. If you wanna take it further, then Huntsville has more in common with Nashville than with Birmingham, FWIW.
Both post here (Corresponding to state borders/ Charleston Charlotte) address the same point, I disagree and assert that NC and SC are very different states and in this case the Deep South culture of South Carolina and the Upper South culture of North Carolina do correspond to it's state line.
Which literally makes Charlotte a gateway to the Deep South since Charlotte literally borders SC--which you probably didn't know.
It will be amusing to see how you try and wiggle out of this one. I'm getting my popcorn ready.
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I'm not but thanks, I'll leave it at that.
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