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View Poll Results: More impressive Transit Expansion?
Sound Transit 3 (Seattle) 13 35.14%
Measure M (Los Angeles) 24 64.86%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-21-2018, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Berkeley, CA
527 posts, read 967,342 times
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Measure M is impressive at $150B, but even that’s underestimating LA’s transit scope. This is a continuation of Measure R passed back in 2008 which is an extra $40B to LA’s grand design. In all, this is almost $200B in transit investment.
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:25 AM
 
Location: SoCal
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To be much more clear. Measure M's projected $120B revenue. Only 35% of that money is for new tracks. So just over $40B. Not all $120B. The rest of the money is used for other transit things like Metrolink commuter train, bike infrastructure. road and highway repair and construction, buy new buses and buy new trains, maintain tracks and buses, security, fare gates, keep fares low for seniors, students, and a large percent to individual cities to do what they want for transit like maybe fix roads, sidewalks, bus stops and so on.
But that good thing is that Measure R, Prop A and Prop C which are all same amount of transit sales tax revenue but different uses and percentages. It adds more money to invest in new rail projects. Maybe near $100+ billion over the many decades just for new rail.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:29 PM
 
488 posts, read 191,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtran103 View Post
Measure M is impressive at $150B, but even that’s underestimating LA’s transit scope. This is a continuation of Measure R passed back in 2008 which is an extra $40B to LA’s grand design. In all, this is almost $200B in transit investment.
Very true - same is true for Seattle though, in that the $54 billion doesn’t account for all the yet-to-be-built rail that was part of the 2008 Sound Transit 2 package.

The interesting thing about these measures is that both cities were largely built as car-oriented, but it’s clear that now both the leadership and population of these cities want to transform into more urban places, and are willing to make massive investments to make that happen.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:24 PM
 
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Seattle has always had better/more bus service than most of its US peers...being the commute-share tweener between the top handful and the rest. It's not a huge leap to go from a bus-heavy city to a city with a lot of buses but also some rail spines.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
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Why will it take 51 minutes from South Lake Union to downtown Redmond? LA's Redline subway goes from Union Station downtown to North Hollywood in about 30 minutes on a little over 16 miles of track with 14 stops. South Lake Union in Seattle to Redmond is probably around 10 miles. 51 minutes seems awfully slow and it's not even built yet.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:56 AM
 
488 posts, read 191,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwright1 View Post
Why will it take 51 minutes from South Lake Union to downtown Redmond? LA's Redline subway goes from Union Station downtown to North Hollywood in about 30 minutes on a little over 16 miles of track with 14 stops. South Lake Union in Seattle to Redmond is probably around 10 miles. 51 minutes seems awfully slow and it's not even built yet.
Where did you get that number? That doesn’t sound right to me, although I could be wrong.

I know that it will be under 20 minutes from Shoreline to Downtown Seattle and currently it takes about 7 minutes to get from Westlake to the University of Washington, which is way faster than driving. Overall, it’s a pretty fast system.
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:31 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,256 posts, read 12,558,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_Adultman View Post
Where did you get that number? That doesnít sound right to me, although I could be wrong.

I know that it will be under 20 minutes from Shoreline to Downtown Seattle and currently it takes about 7 minutes to get from Westlake to the University of Washington, which is way faster than driving. Overall, itís a pretty fast system.

I got it off the link provided by the OP at the beginning.

EXAMPLE TRANSIT TIMES

DOWNTOWN SEATTLE (WESTLAKE) TO:

*Ballard in 13 min

SOUTH LAKE UNION TO:

*Downtown Redmond in 51 min

BALLARD TO:

*Sea-Tac Airport in 49 min

*West Seattle in 33 min
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
422 posts, read 585,236 times
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I think that's mostly explained by the map. The route from SLU to Redmond is not a straight line with a segment through downtown across 90 and then back up through Bellevue. Thats roughly 20 miles vs 14 on the 520 bridge.
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:36 PM
 
488 posts, read 191,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwright1 View Post
I got it off the link provided by the OP at the beginning.

EXAMPLE TRANSIT TIMES

DOWNTOWN SEATTLE (WESTLAKE) TO:

*Ballard in 13 min

SOUTH LAKE UNION TO:

*Downtown Redmond in 51 min

BALLARD TO:

*Sea-Tac Airport in 49 min

*West Seattle in 33 min
The one that surprises me is SLU to downtown Redmond although, as mentioned above, East Link is not a straight line and that drive can take up to 80 minutes during rush hour so I wouldn’t say 51 minutes is horrible.

Last edited by Vincent_Adultman; 05-24-2018 at 02:45 PM..
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Old 05-24-2018, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Independent Republic of Ballard
6,151 posts, read 4,361,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_Adultman View Post
Iím sure I sound like a broken record - light vs heavy rail does matter to some extent, but people are too fixated on that distinction, instead of focusing on grade-separation (i.e. is it street running or underground/elevated), capacity, speed and reliability. Seattleís system is closer to heavy rail systems in those attributes than standard surface running light rail.

Sound Transit's is a hybrid system, running 1500 VDC traction electrificaion, twice that of most light rail systems (750 VDC):


Quote:
The number of cars per train and train frequency are high enough to suggest a heavy rail system to meet predicted ridership. Since one-third of the 21-mile route is surface-running on city streets, third rail was eliminated as a possible power collection method. Heavy traction loads and close spacing of the four-car trains would result in excessive voltage drop in the overhead contact conductors and running rails with a conventional 750 VDC system, as verified by the system simulations. The design team also had a mandate to reduce the number of substations to minimize capital and maintenance costs. The agency and its systems engineering consultant found that 750 VDC traction electrification was not an economically practical solution. The project team considered a number of alternatives. Thyristor-controlled rectifier substations made it possible to stretch substation spacing but this provided only, a 10% reduction in the total number of substations and posed other challenges. Battery-energy storage or flywheel-energy storage violated another agency mandate-that of staying with proven technology. 1500 VDC traction electrification met all requirements and is widely accepted worldwide, but is rare in the United States. Only two operating US transit properties use 1500 VDC for street running transit, and those systems, both in the Chicago area, date back to the turn of the last century. After conducting a study that included feedback from traction electrification equipment suppliers, vehicle and propulsion system manufacturers and other agencies, Sound Transit has made a choice to develop a 1500 VDC system.

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/869989/
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