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View Poll Results: More impressive Transit Expansion?
Sound Transit 3 (Seattle) 13 35.14%
Measure M (Los Angeles) 24 64.86%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-29-2018, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,575 posts, read 3,340,231 times
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Thanks for the map. It looks like Seattle will end up with about 81 stations not including commuter rail or BRT. LA will end up much bigger with more than twice as many. I lost count. Still that doesn’t mean that LA will be better. Seattle may be faster and serve a smaller area. But LA will be very large. Approaching London like coverage. Ok maybe half that but still a lot.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:24 PM
 
514 posts, read 203,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
Thanks for the map. It looks like Seattle will end up with about 81 stations not including commuter rail or BRT. LA will end up much bigger with more than twice as many. I lost count. Still that doesnít mean that LA will be better. Seattle may be faster and serve a smaller area. But LA will be very large. Approaching London like coverage. Ok maybe half that but still a lot.
The scale of what LA is planning is very impressive for sure. And, like Seattle, it will be more high quality transit than the typical post 1980 transit systems (e.g Portland, San Diego).
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles & Houston
1,267 posts, read 637,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_Adultman View Post
There is certainly nothing like the Expo line in Seattle that runs along the surface downtown. They’re going to have two separate tunnels under the urban core by the time the buildout is complete.
Just for one stop but overall, the Expo Line was poorly planned. Pico Station should have been underground when the Blue Line was first built in the early 90s to start off (Expo shares this station). After that, the Expo should have been in a subway until at least USC, and then either keep it in a subway after USC or elevate it until after Crenshaw. Today once you get past Crenshaw, the Expo Line runs at-grade but with overpasses and priority signalling in West LA / Santa Monica.

But after Pico, the Expo runs in a subway. There's a second tunnel being built Downtown that will bring it to Union Station. There's also a possibility of a third tunnel Downtown depending on which route the Santa Ana line will take.

I think Seattle is doing a great job and is outperforming its peers but people can underestimate what is going on in LA.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
Just for one stop but overall, the Expo Line was poorly planned. Pico Station should have been underground when the Blue Line was first built in the early 90s to start off (Expo shares this station). After that, the Expo should have been in a subway until at least USC, and then either keep it in a subway after USC or elevate it until after Crenshaw. Today once you get past Crenshaw, the Expo Line runs at-grade but with overpasses and priority signalling in West LA / Santa Monica.

But after Pico, the Expo runs in a subway. There's a second tunnel being built Downtown that will bring it to Union Station. There's also a possibility of a third tunnel Downtown depending on which route the Santa Ana line will take.

I think Seattle is doing a great job and is outperforming its peers but people can underestimate what is going on in LA.
I used to think that Expo was poorly planned because itís really not that great. But Iíve read that what they did was build the best that they could with relatively little money. In the future it will still be useful but most people looking to go crosstown will use the purple line subway extension. It will be much, much faster.
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Old 05-30-2018, 01:46 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,240 posts, read 21,824,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
I used to think that Expo was poorly planned because itís really not that great. But Iíve read that what they did was build the best that they could with relatively little money. In the future it will still be useful but most people looking to go crosstown will use the purple line subway extension. It will be much, much faster.
The Expo Line exists in its current form because it was going for bang for the buck--there was an existing rail right of way that the Expo Line is mostly built upon.

I think the biggest fix needed is Pico Station as it affects both the Blue Line and Expo Line and foot and vehicular traffic in that area is going to get steadily more intense.
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
The Expo Line exists in its current form because it was going for bang for the buck--there was an existing rail right of way that the Expo Line is mostly built upon.

I think the biggest fix needed is Pico Station as it affects both the Blue Line and Expo Line and foot and vehicular traffic in that area is going to get steadily more intense.
Metro is studying putting both expo or both expo and the blue line underground from the tie-in but I donít know where they imagine the money is coming from.

Absent that, Iíve long advocated making the existing pico platform NB only and adding a SB platform south of Washington. I think that thereís barely enough room to make it work.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Point Loma, San Diego, CA
930 posts, read 911,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
I used to think that Expo was poorly planned because itís really not that great. But Iíve read that what they did was build the best that they could with relatively little money. In the future it will still be useful but most people looking to go crosstown will use the purple line subway extension. It will be much, much faster.
I don't even live in Los Angeles and I love the Expo line, and it has saved me time and money. If you're coming in by rail from out of town the Expo is crucial for events/meetings in Culver City, SaMo, Venice, West Adams, Westwood, etc. I wish we had rail in SD that went from the beach to 14 miles inland.

Yes, the Purple Line extension is perhaps the most ambitious transit project in North America right now, I can't wait to come up and ride it when it opens. It will be historic.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:56 PM
 
3,629 posts, read 2,047,521 times
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The "London-like" and "or half that" comments undersell London. Between the Tube and the commuter services, there are dozens and dozens of lines. The distance between lines anywhere near the core can be much smaller. That's before you get to speed or frequency.
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,575 posts, read 3,340,231 times
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Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
The "London-like" and "or half that" comments undersell London. Between the Tube and the commuter services, there are dozens and dozens of lines. The distance between lines anywhere near the core can be much smaller. That's before you get to speed or frequency.
Maybe I should clarify. When I said that LA would approach half of Londonís coverage I was referring only to coverage. As in the number of stations in a certain area will give you an idea of how easy stations are to access for most people. Of course the overall service in London will be far superior to LA with more frequent trains.

And good point about the London overground if thatís what you meant by commuter. It has frequencies that rival US metro frequencies. About every 4-8 min I think.
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:45 AM
 
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I think once the Crenshaw Line connects the Purple to Expo, that'll be a game changer. The biggest game changer with that will be if Metro decides to extend the Crenshaw Line up to the Red Line through WeHo. If they decide on the route up San Vicente to Santa Monica Blvd, then turn and follow Santa Monica and connect to Hollywood/Highland, I think LA could give plenty of cities in the US a run for their money on best transit systems. It would be behind NYC for sure, but Chicago lacks a cross-town connector like the Crenshaw Line could become.
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