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Point well taken. But they are STILL moving into the general core city...not surrounding counties, etc. You really cannot discount this data. It's relevant. And go to those individual larger cities by land area and look at their local news....millennials are moving to their urban cores. It's a fact that cannot be downplayed. Also many cities on that list that are widely thought to count as city/county mergers are in fact only a fraction of that in land area when you look at their city (balance) populations which is what the official census uses. Louisville and Nashville are the best examples of that so their land areas are not nearly as big as you think but both are probably 200-300 sq miles yes. Atlanta is no small city geographically at 134 sq miles. The census data I posted it still means alot. Atlanta's urban core attracts alot of millennial but it doesn't retain enough. No one is saying ATL is struggling but if you cannot see the demographic trends you aren't looking.
No Atlanta isn't exactly small in terms of land area, but it's not large either. I'd imagine if Decatur (its core effectively functions as an intown Atlanta neighborhood), Brookhaven, and Sandy Springs were part of the city, it would make this list. Interestingly enough, Raleigh and Atlanta are both of similar size with similar municipal populations and neither appears on the top 10 list. But again, the previous observations made by other posters help keep things in context: this is only one year's worth of data, it only measures growth (not retention) and and not the size of the overall millenial population, and the list is arbitrarily limited to the 217 largest U.S. cities and this essentially excludes smaller suburbs in close proximity to the central city that act as core urban neighborhoods. One year's worth of data doesn't constitute a trend either.
Does it create a misleading narrative? I disagree. What it does show is urban cores not only attracting but RETAINING millennials. In my mind it says Atlanta’s urban core has work to do to retain 2016 millennials . The reasons are arguable (maybe millennials priced out).
It doesn't, I can understand Seattle but besides a few most those cities have larger cities limits, Jacksonville attracting more millennial than Atlanta really?
even that's contradictory to there state map, Jacksonville is gaining more than Atlanta even though Florida is gaining less than Georgia,....... in which 80% of Georgia is Atlanta and Jacksonville is spilting Florida with Miami, Orlando and Tampa.
larger cities like Atlanta would not only have developments appealing to millennial in the city proper but the inner suburbs. Especially with Atlanta failure to annex like most Sunbelt cities cause city to be only part of the regional core that is de facto Atlanta, not just the city proper is urbanizing but the inner suburbs as well. basically millennials are not only moving to CoA but moving to Smyrna, Decatur, The Perimeter area and etc etc. This creates competition that wouldn't exist in Columbia or Sacramento so most millennial would just go to there city proper. While in larger metros there would be more options.
This can make smaller metros seem like punching above there weight and larger metros like not just Atlanta but DC, Miami below.
As poster pointed out, not just Atlanta city limits is small, but Atlanta suburbs are small, and half the region stay in unincorporated areas. . So Now Atlanta suburbs would not should up either.
It doesn't, I can understand Seattle but besides a few most those cities have larger cities limits, Jacksonville attracting more millennial than Atlanta really?
even that's contradictory to there state map, Jacksonville is gaining more than Atlanta even though Florida is gaining less than Georgia,....... in which 80% of Georgia is Atlanta and Jacksonville is spilting Florida with Miami, Orlando and Tampa.
larger cities like Atlanta would not only have developments appealing to millennial in the city proper but the inner suburbs. Especially with Atlanta failure to annex like most Sunbelt cities cause city to be only part of the regional core that is de facto Atlanta, not just the city proper is urbanizing but the inner suburbs as well. basically millennials are not only moving to CoA but moving to Smyrna, Decatur, The Perimeter area and etc etc. This creates competition that wouldn't exist in Columbia or Sacramento so most millennial would just go to there city proper. While in larger metros there would be more options.
This can make smaller metros seem like punching above there weight and larger metros like not just Atlanta but DC, Miami below.
As poster pointed out, not just Atlanta city limits is small, but Atlanta suburbs are small, and half the region stay in unincorporated areas. . So Now Atlanta suburbs would not should up either.
Point well taken. But they are STILL moving into the general core city...not surrounding counties, etc. You really cannot discount this data. It's relevant. And go to those individual larger cities by land area and look at their local news....millennials are moving to their urban cores. It's a fact that cannot be downplayed. Also many cities on that list that are widely thought to count as city/county mergers are in fact only a fraction of that in land area when you look at their city (balance) populations which is what the official census uses. Louisville and Nashville are the best examples of that so their land areas are not nearly as big as you think but both are probably 200-300 sq miles yes. Atlanta is no small city geographically at 134 sq miles. The census data I posted it still means alot. Atlanta's urban core attracts alot of millennial but it doesn't retain enough. No one is saying ATL is struggling but if you cannot see the demographic trends you aren't looking.
What we are seeing is a shift to the really cool midsized cities and I have been saying this in my travels for the last 5 years. Just get on yelp and look at "new restaurants" in the top 25 cities on this list. All of them are very "new york." Millennials are getting their city fix in midsized cities, saving, and using the savings to travel the world! A much smarter generation than us older folks (like me) who have traveled and lived all over due to jobs.
Speaking of Columbia I was there again last year and totally shocked! Times are changing quick and once Nashville gets full without transit, who will the next darling city in the southeast be...it's going to be a midsized city, centrally located, easy and affordable living, low traffic, and low unemployment, good restaurants and arts. Right now Charleston is starting to look like that city but there are many candidates (Raleigh is already there) among them Louisville and Richmond.
One thing that may be going on ATL is that lower income Millennial minorities are being pushed out by the rising COL and being replaced by higher income professionals. The net change may not be significant.
Going forward, I think jobs are going to be the biggest problem. I work in IT and live in a metro of about 200,000. If something were happen to my current job, I'd likely have to move to retain anything close to my current salary. I really need a metro of a million or more to feel stable.
Funny thing is, that map you posted leaves off the fastest growing part of "Atlanta" (Forsyth County), as well as Paulding County.
But to the point it just goes to.show how misleadimg Atlanta's numbers are when it comes to millennial migration.
percentage and are not the same as raw numbers, lower populated places tend to have faster growth then places that are more populated.
Forsyth County has went from 175,511 in 2010.... to 227,967 in 2017 that 29.9%
Gwinnett County has went from 805,321 in 2010 to 920,260 in 2017 that's 14.3%
Yes Forsyth has faster rate because it's smaller but Gwinnett it's actually gaining twice the amount of people. Generally Atlanta core counties are densifying more than The Metro is actually sprawling.
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Originally Posted by Peter1948
Point well taken. But they are STILL moving into the general core city...not surrounding counties, etc. You really cannot discount this data. It's relevant. And go to those individual larger cities by land area and look at their local news....millennials are moving to their urban cores. It's a fact that cannot be downplayed. Also many cities on that list that are widely thought to count as city/county mergers are in fact only a fraction of that in land area when you look at their city (balance) populations which is what the official census uses. Louisville and Nashville are the best examples of that so their land areas are not nearly as big as you think but both are probably 200-300 sq miles yes. Atlanta is no small city geographically at 134 sq miles. The census data I posted it still means alot. Atlanta's urban core attracts alot of millennial but it doesn't retain enough. No one is saying ATL is struggling but if you cannot see the demographic trends you aren't looking.
What we are seeing is a shift to the really cool midsized cities and I have been saying this in my travels for the last 5 years. Just get on yelp and look at "new restaurants" in the top 25 cities on this list. All of them are very "new york." Millennials are getting their city fix in midsized cities, saving, and using the savings to travel the world! A much smarter generation than us older folks (like me) who have traveled and lived all over due to jobs.
Speaking of Columbia I was there again last year and totally shocked! Times are changing quick and once Nashville gets full without transit, who will the next darling city in the southeast be...it's going to be a midsized city, centrally located, easy and affordable living, low traffic, and low unemployment, good restaurants and arts. Right now Charleston is starting to look like that city but there are many candidates (Raleigh is already there) among them Louisville and Richmond.
But Atlanta is almost 6 million, Atlanta suburbs are like midsize cities. "surrounding" Atlanta is not like "surrounding" Columbia. "surrounding" Atlanta is like Columbia core itself. So the point I was making larger cities would attracting millennial to broader area.
Georgia has smallest average county size, 2 or 3 Texas suburbs city are like size of a whole Georgia county. And with Fulton being narrow Atlanta bounders 3 counties. So as I bring up counties in Georgia it's important to note the size difference. And if Atlanta was size of Dallas or Houston it would be in 5 counties.
Fulton, Gwinnett, Cobb, DeKalb and Clayton are Atlanta core counties, Fulton, Gwinnett, Cobb, and DeKalb counties are more populated and denser than Nashville Davidson county
Davidson county TN... 684,410 in 526 sq mi
Cobb county GA...... 755,754 in 345 sq mi
Atlanta core counties are populated and dense because they sort of filling in the shoes of Atlanta failing to annex. Regardless that the city is just 132 sq mi the region behaves like the city is de facto 200 to 400 sq mi development and population wise.
So with that area even outside city you infill and projects that would attract millennials, not just in the city proper. If Atlanta had a normal sunbelt city limits would be inside the city.
when millennials move to the Atlanta area people sort of the see adjured to the Atlanta not just city proper but the areas around as "Atlanta" Places like Decatur, Collage Park, chamblee ga and etc are not really viewed as "the Suburbs" at all. This look a city boundaries, So this actually slice the core into separate competing areas. To compete against other cities. So it comes out looking funny as if Atlanta isn't attracting millennials around the core, When the region is. This is probably happening with DC and Miami as well.
percentage and are not the same as raw numbers, lower populated places tend to have faster growth then places that are more populated.
Forsyth County has went from 175,511 in 2010.... to 227,967 in 2017 that 29.9%
Gwinnett County has went from 805,321 in 2010 to 920,260 in 2017 that's 14.3%
Yes Forsyth has faster rate because it's smaller but Gwinnett it's actually gaining twice the amount of people. Generally Atlanta core counties are densifying more than The Metro is actually sprawling.
But Atlanta is almost 6 million, Atlanta suburbs are like midsize cities. "surrounding" Atlanta is not like "surrounding" Columbia. "surrounding" Atlanta is like Columbia core itself. So the point I was making larger cities would attracting millennial to broader area.
Georgia has smallest average county size, 2 or 3 Texas suburbs city are like size of a whole Georgia county. And with Fulton being narrow Atlanta bounders 3 counties. So as I bring up counties in Georgia it's important to note the size difference. And if Atlanta was size of Dallas or Houston it would be in 5 counties.
Fulton, Gwinnett, Cobb, DeKalb and Clayton are Atlanta core counties, Fulton, Gwinnett, Cobb, and DeKalb counties are more populated and denser than Nashville Davidson county
Davidson county TN... 684,410 in 526 sq mi
Cobb county GA...... 755,754 in 345 sq mi
Atlanta core counties are populated and dense because they sort of filling in the shoes of Atlanta failing to annex. Regardless that the city is just 132 sq mi the region behaves like the city is de facto 200 to 400 sq mi development and population wise.
So with that area even outside city you infill and projects that would attract millennials, not just in the city proper. If Atlanta had a normal sunbelt city limits would be inside the city.
when millennials move to the Atlanta area people sort of the see adjured to the Atlanta not just city proper but the areas around as "Atlanta" Places like Decatur, Collage Park, chamblee ga and etc are not really viewed as "the Suburbs" at all. This look a city boundaries, So this actually slice the core into separate competing areas. To compete against other cities. So it comes out looking funny as if Atlanta isn't attracting millennials around the core, When the region is. This is probably happening with DC and Miami as well.
Listen, ATL is not struggling. It's still booming. It's just it's downtown and immediate environs are not as attractive to millennials as far as net gain over particularly in 2016 but I'd strongly surmise that trend continues today. You are correct these midsized cities don't have areas like you posted but that's the whole point! Who needs ATL at this point...alot of these millennials for example are LEAVING Atlanta for these midsized carolina cities for example. Fiber internet and Amazon is only going to accelerate that! Watch the demographic trends in the 2020s to see what I mean. No Atlanta won't struggle but these mega sunbelt cities have about reached their limit and people, particularly millennials, are preferring the charm, sensibility, and similar urban amenities in mid sized cities, its just a little less of each thing.
Listen, ATL is not struggling. It's still booming. It's just it's downtown and immediate environs are not as attractive to millennials as far as net gain over particularly in 2016 but I'd strongly surmise that trend continues today.
This isn't true either, Downtown, Midtown, The Eastside neighborhoods and West Midtown are generally growing and gaining Millennial. If areas losing population it's more outer and Suburban parts at the ends of city. Not the immediate
Your making a assumption of how these cities are growing given their population. That Nashville growth must all be downtown and Atlanta not making this list means millennial aren't moving to the city center. That false. this tells what happening in their city limits not a break down of neighborhoods or what's happening in their downtown and immediate areas. You need to learn more about how these city are develop,
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You are correct these midsized cities don't have areas like you posted but that's the whole point! Who needs ATL at this point...alot of these millennials for example are LEAVING Atlanta for these midsized carolina cities for example. Fiber internet and Amazon is only going to accelerate that! Watch the demographic trends in the 2020s to see what I mean. No Atlanta won't struggle but these mega sunbelt cities have about reached their limit and people, particularly millennials, are preferring the charm, sensibility, and similar urban amenities in mid sized cities, its just a little less of each thing.
This shows you did not listen to any of my posts. And making some fantasy rant.
By the same study and site showed Georgia is top 5 gaining more millennial then either Carolina. And Metro Atlanta is 80% of Georgia growth. This means the Atlanta area is gaining far more millennial then any area in the Carolinas. So basically you statement counter factual to even the data your trying to argue. Millennials aren't leaving Atlanta, In Metro Atlanta there more options more areas developing urban for Millennials. If a Millennial chose not the live in city proper. They have option of living in lofts or urban lifestyle in suburban areas. Not they leaving the area.
This exactly my point when I said misleading narrative.
Listen, ATL is not struggling. It's still booming. It's just it's downtown and immediate environs are not as attractive to millennials as far as net gain over particularly in 2016 but I'd strongly surmise that trend continues today. You are correct these midsized cities don't have areas like you posted but that's the whole point! Who needs ATL at this point...alot of these millennials for example are LEAVING Atlanta for these midsized carolina cities for example. Fiber internet and Amazon is only going to accelerate that! Watch the demographic trends in the 2020s to see what I mean. No Atlanta won't struggle but these mega sunbelt cities have about reached their limit and people, particularly millennials, are preferring the charm, sensibility, and similar urban amenities in mid sized cities, its just a little less of each thing.
And you know any of this how? This summation is beyond ridiculous, and you need to provide proof of these claims.
The core of the Metro is experiencing an unprecedented boom that makes the run-up to the Olympics look like child's play. And it's being driven by millennials either staying after college, or being drawn to the tens of thousands of good jobs being created here annually.
One thing about Colorado, the military presence skews things.
There was a recent article claiming Colorado Springs was the top growing millennial destination in the nation. It was most likely true, but that's because the city is surrounded by 5 expanding military bases, all of which bring in millennial aged people. Denver has a fair military presence too, both in bases and defense contracting.
Take out those who moved for military reasons, and CO would drop down the list a fair amount.
One thing about Colorado, the military presence skews things.
There was a recent article claiming Colorado Springs was the top growing millennial destination in the nation. It was most likely true, but that's because the city is surrounded by 5 expanding military bases, all of which bring in millennial aged people. Denver has a fair military presence too, both in bases and defense contracting.
Take out those who moved for military reasons, and CO would drop down the list a fair amount.
I doubt it. Colorado is still a huge millennial magnet with or without the military presence. It is one of the fastest growing states in the nation and always topping these kinds of lists.
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