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I walked around Over-the-Rhine this February, and was surprised by the lack of businesses in the neighborhood. There are probably more businesses in Virginia-Highland than OTR. However, OTR's housing stock is unmatched outside the east coast. I think that the Central West End has the density, commercial activity, and size to surpass Virginia Highland and OTR.
I walked around Over-the-Rhine this February, and was surprised by the lack of businesses in the neighborhood. There are probably more businesses in Virginia-Highland than OTR. However, OTR's housing stock is unmatched outside the east coast. I think that the Central West End has the density, commercial activity, and size to surpass Virginia Highland and OTR.
Good information.
Ever since Whole Foods and Shake Shack opened in the CWE, it has jumped into a high end gentrification. There is nothing unique about the area that can't be found in trendy neighborhoods across the country outside of the architecture. The LGBTQ community use to dominate the area back in the 80s and 90s. At one point it was party central from my understanding. The CWE has always been considered as fashionable or trendy for St Louis probably since the Saks Fifth Avenue and Montaldos days in Maryland Plaza.
If OTR hasn't hit hype gentrification yet there may be something that can be done to build it into a unique urban experience.
Last edited by mjtinmemphis; 06-30-2018 at 03:22 AM..
Ever since Whole Foods and Shake Shack opened in the CWE, it has jumped into a high end gentrification. There is nothing unique about the area that can't be found in trendy neighborhoods across the country outside of the architecture. The LGBTQ community use to dominate the area back in the 80s and 90s. At one point it was party central from my understanding. The CWE has always been considered as fashionable or trendy for St Louis probably since the Saks Fifth Avenue and Montaldos days in Maryland Plaza.
If OTR hasn't hit hype gentrification yet there may be something that can be done to build it into a unique urban experience.
The CWE gentrified long before places like Shake Shack opened. You don't have the highest rents in the city if you're just now jumping into high scale gentrification.
Anyway, I agree with you that the CWE doesn't really have much that separates itself from other trendy neighborhoods nationwide if we're just talking bars, restaurants, shops, etc, but there are certainly unique elements that help the neighborhood to standout.
I always thought the admixture of St. Louis' old money grandeur with the mansions on the private streets, the Chase Park Plaza, the Cathedral Basilica, etc, was an interesting combination with all the college and professional students who live and go to school in the area. The fact that the neighborhood is also such a large job center in the city differentiates itself due to all the universities (WashU's med school, St. Louis College of Pharmacy, and SLU, Harris Stowe, and Wash U nearby) and hospitals (Barnes Jewish, St. Louis Children's, Shriner's, etc) in the neighborhood, and this doesn't even take into account all the startups and other established tech companies in the Cortex on the CWE's eastern end. Also, who can forget Forest Park? That's why rents are so high on the western side of the CWE. It's a major asset that many people don't even realize St. Louis has.
It's those elements that help distinguish the CWE from other neighborhoods, especially the fact that it's an employment center. When describing the neighborhood to Chicago friends I usually describe it as St. Louis' Lincoln Park, but it's honestly more important than Lincoln Park, in my opinion, due it being such a job center for the region.
The CWE gentrified long before places like Shake Shack opened. You don't have the highest rents in the city if you're just now jumping into high scale gentrification.
Anyway, I agree with you that the CWE doesn't really have much that separates itself from other trendy neighborhoods nationwide if we're just talking bars, restaurants, shops, etc, but there are certainly unique elements that help the neighborhood to standout.
I always thought the admixture of St. Louis' old money grandeur with the mansions on the private streets, the Chase Park Plaza, the Cathedral Basilica, etc, was an interesting combination with all the college and professional students who live and go to school in the area. The fact that the neighborhood is also such a large job center in the city differentiates itself due to all the universities (WashU's med school, St. Louis College of Pharmacy, and SLU, Harris Stowe, and Wash U nearby) and hospitals (Barnes Jewish, St. Louis Children's, Shriner's, etc) in the neighborhood, and this doesn't even take into account all the startups and other established tech companies in the Cortex on the CWE's eastern end. Also, who can forget Forest Park? That's why rents are so high on the western side of the CWE. It's a major asset that many people don't even realize St. Louis has.
It's those elements that help distinguish the CWE from other neighborhoods, especially the fact that it's an employment center. When describing the neighborhood to Chicago friends I usually describe it as St. Louis' Lincoln Park, but it's honestly more important than Lincoln Park, in my opinion, due it being such a job center for the region.
You always offer respectful, balanced and informative posts. I guess I didn't explain myself as I should've. Within the last four years, I have seen the CWE jump to a premium level I have seen in my lifetime. It is St. Louis version of Lincoln Park in a way when you look at the total picture. Shake Shack, Whole Foods and the ground breaking of 100 N. Kingshighway confirms that position along with Cortex, BJCs presence alongside Forest Park. The area is the Gem of St. Louis neighborhoods.
The CWE gentrified long before places like Shake Shack opened. You don't have the highest rents in the city if you're just now jumping into high scale gentrification.
Anyway, I agree with you that the CWE doesn't really have much that separates itself from other trendy neighborhoods nationwide if we're just talking bars, restaurants, shops, etc, but there are certainly unique elements that help the neighborhood to standout.
I always thought the admixture of St. Louis' old money grandeur with the mansions on the private streets, the Chase Park Plaza, the Cathedral Basilica, etc, was an interesting combination with all the college and professional students who live and go to school in the area. The fact that the neighborhood is also such a large job center in the city differentiates itself due to all the universities (WashU's med school, St. Louis College of Pharmacy, and SLU, Harris Stowe, and Wash U nearby) and hospitals (Barnes Jewish, St. Louis Children's, Shriner's, etc) in the neighborhood, and this doesn't even take into account all the startups and other established tech companies in the Cortex on the CWE's eastern end. Also, who can forget Forest Park? That's why rents are so high on the western side of the CWE. It's a major asset that many people don't even realize St. Louis has.
It's those elements that help distinguish the CWE from other neighborhoods, especially the fact that it's an employment center. When describing the neighborhood to Chicago friends I usually describe it as St. Louis' Lincoln Park, but it's honestly more important than Lincoln Park, in my opinion, due it being such a job center for the region.
Very insightful comments, and they jibe with my CWE thoughts ... from this past weekend of my very first St. Louis visit (more on this later). I was just telling our STL hosts that CWE is like one of Chicago's neighborhoods, esp the North Shore and esp Lincoln Park. The other 2 factors which make CWE stand out over the aforementioned comparators are:
1. density. There are mid and highrise apts/condos throughout this neighborhood in addition to several brick walk-ups, (Chicago-style) flats and close-spaced older homes, that look like flats. The last unofficial census has St. Louis city's population at just over 300K... Just by eyeballing, seemingly a good 1/3 lives in CWE!
2. transit. MetroLink, the STL LRT, has a stop just below the cluster of medical institutions at the edge of Forest Park and a short stroll away from all the Euclid Street shops, bars and restaurants which range from trendy to quirky. This enhances CWE's great walkability.
I will go with CWE when I went I fell in love with entire city, it's truly hard to comprehend such a high crime rate in such a nice underrated city.
The crazy thing is before I truly got to explore the city I assumed it was a dump, but I sure was wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis
I work with a lot of transplants who think the same thing. They are usually pleasantly surprised with St Louis.
The crime rate isn't fitting for the city but that's a story for a different thread.
Yeah, the St. Louis hype on this forum has made me view St. Louis in a whole new light. I've now extensively "cyber-toured" it via Google Street View, and, no, it's not quite the same as actually visiting in person; however, it's drastically altered my impression of the city. I now want to visit St. Louis specifically to tour places like the Central West End and Soulard (albeit North St. Louis doesn't appeal to me much, and its Downtown seems somewhat underutilized/underdeveloped as in what I experienced when I visited Buffalo in real life). Most of us hear St. Louis and think "high crime" and just write it off. To be fair Pittsburgh's crime rate is nearly as high these days, yet most people don't hear Pittsburgh and think "high crime". Most think "dying steel town", which is also incorrect, but I digress.
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