Charlotte/Raleigh vs Kansas City/St.Louis (map, life, school)
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That's why I have a preference for established cities. They don't have the rapid growth of sunbelt cities but they do what they do very well.
You know there are "established" sunbelt cities also?New Orleans,Atlanta,Memphis,Nashville,Birmingham,Richm ond.Dallas all older or as old as KC.
St.Louis while much older ,its built environment of what exist today was built around the same time most cities also bloomed.
The fictional town of Mayberry, N.C., was much smaller than Raleigh even when The Andy Griffith Show and its successor Mayberry R.F.D. were on.
Raleigh never has been a college town. Of the three cities that together make up the Research Triangle, that term best fits Chapel Hill, home to the University of North Carolina. Even more prestigious Duke University is in Durham, a short distance up the road from Raleigh, and the Triangle is also close to Winston-Salem, where you will find Wake Forest University. Raleigh is the state capital of North Carolina, which means you should have heard about it in grade school, unless the schools in Kansas City no longer teach basic geography or civics in grade school. Then again, Kansas City doesn't hold a candle to the Triangle in terms of educational institutions.
Raleigh, Durham, and Winston-Salem also share a heritage as centers for the tobacco-growing industry. Given that cigarettes have fallen out of favor, it might be no surprise that this element of their history has been buried in the popular imagination; the degree to which STEM and pharmaceuticals have taken over as economic mainstays for the region probably helped bury it as well, though.
I'm a forever Kansas Citian, but I try to keep it real when the occasion calls for it.
Good to see some objectivity here.
I'd offer a slight correction though: Raleigh wasn't really a hub of the tobacco industry. Durham and Winston-Salem were the biggest players with Greensboro playing a notable role as well. Durham and Winston-Salem have benefitted from that legacy industry with their historic downtown tobacco warehouses being repurposed into mixed-use and research facilities. Those are the cities (along with Asheville and Wilmington) in NC one should visit if they are looking for a more historic, urban vibe in the core.
You know there are "established" sunbelt cities also?New Orleans,Atlanta,Memphis,Nashville,Birmingham,Richm ond.Dallas all older or as old as KC.
St.Louis while much older ,its built environment of what exist today was built around the same time most cities also bloomed.
Richmond isn't in the Sunbelt as it is a bit too far north. New Orleans is in the Sunbelt but not really of the Sunbelt in terms of growth and development. Atlanta is a bit more historic than it is given credit for but I wouldn't call it an "established" city in the same vein as St. Louis.
You know there are "established" sunbelt cities also?New Orleans,Atlanta,Memphis,Nashville,Birmingham,Richm ond.Dallas all older or as old as KC.
St.Louis while much older ,its built environment of what exist today was built around the same time most cities also bloomed.
In the context of this conversation, both Charlotte and Raleigh predate Kansas City as well.
When people talk about legacy cities in a typical C-D forum conversation, I think that they are talking about cities with strong post industrial revolution growth from the late 1800s until WWII. The consistent narrative on C-D forum tends to be that a city can be "forgiven" for not being what it used to be, but a city can't be forgiven for not having been significant prior to the golden age of the automobile. That said, I think that everyone knows that both Charlotte and Raleigh had much more of their substantial structural and population growth in post WWII America than either Kansas City or St. Louis. The two sets of cities also have opposite trajectories in stature. The peak prominence of the MO pair is arguably in the past, and the two NC cities continue to ascend. To be clear, this doesn't mean that the two MO cities are deteriorating (though a strong case can be made for that being the case in St Louis), it just means that their position relative to other cities in the country isn't as strong as it used to be.
What seems to be lost is an understanding of successes and failures made in any type of city despite the context. While we hear stories of gentrifying legacy urban areas in "older" cities, and post WWII cities investing in their cores, we also hear stories about lost neighborhoods and blight in legacy cities after freeways were plowed through them to modernize them for the auto-age, and stories about decentralized cities that went way overboard in endless sprawl before even trying to reign it in, invest in their core or plan infrastructure. Making the right decisions in any city can make a city thrive and grow. Making the wrong decisions can significantly hamper it or seal its doom.
That stark contrast of these two pairs of cities makes this an interesting thread because it invites a strong subjective reaction while the OP lays out what looks like an objective measurement comparison.
I'd offer a slight correction though: Raleigh wasn't really a hub of the tobacco industry. Durham and Winston-Salem were the biggest players with Greensboro playing a notable role as well. Durham and Winston-Salem have benefitted from that legacy industry with their historic downtown tobacco warehouses being repurposed into mixed-use and research facilities. Those are the cities (along with Asheville and Wilmington) in NC one should visit if they are looking for a more historic, urban vibe in the core.
While many cities in America were founded on trade routes and industry, Raleigh was purposefully founded to be the state capital due to its proximity to a popular tavern used by original state legislators. #truestory
It came to house the state's largest university in a very purposeful way as well when the city was selected to house North Carolina's land grant university.
If one looks for a legacy industry to tie to Raleigh, it would be cotton milling. Needless to say, that industry is gone from the city.
While many cities in America were founded on trade routes and industry, Raleigh was purposefully founded to be the state capital due to its proximity to a popular tavern used by original state legislators. #truestory
It came to house the state's largest university in a very purposeful way as well when the city was selected to house North Carolina's land grant university.
If one looks for a legacy industry to tie to Raleigh, it would be cotton milling. Needless to say, that industry is gone from the city.
Minus the tavern part, you could've substituted Columbia for Raleigh here.
I've never heard of Virginia referred to as being in the Sunbelt.
LOL of course it’s not but everything is fair game didn’t you get the memo?!!
Last edited by Koji7; 07-03-2018 at 11:59 AM..
Reason: Punctuation
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