U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-30-2018, 01:58 PM
 
8,908 posts, read 9,105,917 times
Reputation: 5417

Advertisements

DARTs subway will not serve All lines a believe i think it splits the lines so there are two paths through DT which IMO is better than moving everything to one route.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-30-2018, 02:06 PM
 
1,168 posts, read 356,491 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
DARTs subway will not serve All lines a believe i think it splits the lines so there are two paths through DT which IMO is better than moving everything to one route.
The cotton belt line from Plano through Carollton to DFW airport will be a huge breakthrough. This will be DART's first cross town, suburb to suburb line, giving many suburbs a direct link to the airport. It'll raise ridership tremendously, creating a denser packed network.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2018, 04:22 PM
 
1,633 posts, read 1,098,587 times
Reputation: 1485
Only ridden DART and BART. Between the two, I'd rather take DART but I'd rather rely on BART for all my transportation needs if I had no car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2018, 05:28 PM
 
2,137 posts, read 2,684,310 times
Reputation: 1787
{delete double post}
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2018, 09:38 PM
 
4,622 posts, read 2,986,189 times
Reputation: 5522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert_SW_77 View Post
But it's not hitting the dense nodes, like you said and it perplexes me why they built the R line through Aurora like they did. It is mostly running parallel to I-225, it starts and ends from one transfer point to another with no direct service to Denver, the only real busy stopping point is the Anshutz medical campus and it's not really hitting any residential areas or neighborhoods in Aurora. So the ridership numbers on that line are pretty dismal, half of what RTD has projected (https://kdvr.com/2018/09/25/rtd-redu...hrough-aurora/). That particular line was pretty poorly planned, not sure how you can fix that.
I think with the R Line, it was basically the path of least residence, when they decided where to put it. They already had "the stub" ending in the middle of I-225 at Parker, so they were like, well lets just keep it along the interstate, maybe go around the mall, then over to the medical campus and up to the A Line.

Even with the medical campus, that is a hike from the Colfax Station, depending on where you are going in the complex. There are some neighborhoods near the R Line like, Chamber Heights, Lynn Knoll, Sable Ridge, Utah Park, Southeast Crossing and Heather Gardens, but for the most part, it's not really in a dense area, like you mentioned. Good for those who are within walking distance!

As for what they can do, there is room to connect the tracks of the R Line and A Line at Peoria Station, so you wouldn't have to transfer, but that might screw up the timetable of the A Line, if it had to share the same tracks from Peoria to Union. I think with the R, a good chunk of people probably just use it to get to the mall, medical campus or go to the airport (with a transfer), if you lived in the South/Southeast part of the metroplex.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2018, 11:00 PM
 
Location: San Francisco/East Bay and Los Angeles, formerly DC and Boston
2,023 posts, read 3,326,954 times
Reputation: 1625
I ride BART frequently for work. It is by far the most useful, and used, of these lines, and also the one where you're most likely to have a smelly drug addict lying across two seats.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2019, 08:17 AM
 
114 posts, read 55,458 times
Reputation: 68
Denver RTD rail system,


RTD rail system

Last edited by zlxt; 02-20-2019 at 08:56 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2019, 07:16 PM
 
2,137 posts, read 2,684,310 times
Reputation: 1787
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
I know Bart is heavy rail while the other systems are light rail, but let's forget about that for a moment. Which system has the greatest coverage? The most convenience, the most frequent trains, the fastest speed, etc?

BART also has many of the same issues Denver and Dallas do. BART relies heavily on park and ride commuters. BART also serves the suburbs much more than it does San Francisco itself. Take Muni Metro out of the picture. It's way too slow and is more like a bus on rails than anything.

Even during weekdays, during off peak hours on BART there will be a train only every ten minutes, at best. This may not even be as frequent as what Dallas has.

Also, Dallas light rail looks far cleaner than the dingy, overcrowded, crime ridden BART. Ditto for Denver.
You have to look at the cities themselves and how mass transit adapted to, and helped navigate, their particular environment.

To me, San Fran wins by miles. Look at the city. It's tiny and yet, the most densely populated in America by far (884K people in just 47 sq miles = 18,860/sq mile), except for NYC. SF was built on and maintained by, quality mass transit throughout its history, unlike Denver and Dallas which blew up in the 60s and 70s around freeways and are now, to their credit, building large rapid transit networks -- but both are trying more to chase suburban commuter sprawl rather than move folks around inside the city and its close-in urban suburbs. MUNI metro LRT has existed for over 100 years, and it did tunnel through the Twin and Sunset peaks long ago. And the 5 branches feed beautifully into the Market Street subway tunnel with 4 stations in the CBD. MUNI connects City neighborhoods that BART doesn't cover. One can easily live in SF without a car whereas doing the same would be very difficult in either Dallas or Denver.

Yeah, we know BART is designed to be a regional commuter-rapid transit. But even BART, alone, with its single line (with one branch) in SF and down the peninsula, is a better "urban" system than either DART or RTD's LRT and electric commuter rail. It has 4 downtown stations plus 5 more where BART slices south through the core of the dense, gentrifying Mission District before exiting south through Daly City and the SF Intl airport. btw, BART also covers urbanized Oakland and Berkely as well, with station stops right downtown and (esp in Oakland) a number of urban areas that are steadily gentrifying such as the infamous Fruitvale neighborhood (I say infamous because of the well-publicized tragedies there: the horrible cop shooting (murder) at BART's Fruitvale Station and the deadly fire at the unauthorized, code-violating factory loft apartment a few years ago).

And add to this the famous cable cars and the most extensive trolley-bus network in the nation -- and soon-to-be-electrified Caltrain, too. I could care less whether some BART trains may be dirty (if that were the case, let's write off the NYC subway!). San Francisco, hands down, towers over Denver and Dallas, rail transit-wise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2019, 10:03 PM
 
677 posts, read 281,577 times
Reputation: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
You have to look at the cities themselves and how mass transit adapted to, and helped navigate, their particular environment.

To me, San Fran wins by miles. Look at the city. It's tiny and yet, the most densely populated in America by far (884K people in just 47 sq miles = 18,860/sq mile), except for NYC. SF was built on and maintained by, quality mass transit throughout its history, unlike Denver and Dallas which blew up in the 60s and 70s around freeways and are now, to their credit, building large rapid transit networks -- but both are trying more to chase suburban commuter sprawl rather than move folks around inside the city and its close-in urban suburbs. MUNI metro LRT has existed for over 100 years, and it did tunnel through the Twin and Sunset peaks long ago. And the 5 branches feed beautifully into the Market Street subway tunnel with 4 stations in the CBD. MUNI connects City neighborhoods that BART doesn't cover. One can easily live in SF without a car whereas doing the same would be very difficult in either Dallas or Denver.

Yeah, we know BART is designed to be a regional commuter-rapid transit. But even BART, alone, with its single line (with one branch) in SF and down the peninsula, is a better "urban" system than either DART or RTD's LRT and electric commuter rail. It has 4 downtown stations plus 5 more where BART slices south through the core of the dense, gentrifying Mission District before exiting south through Daly City and the SF Intl airport. btw, BART also covers urbanized Oakland and Berkely as well, with station stops right downtown and (esp in Oakland) a number of urban areas that are steadily gentrifying such as the infamous Fruitvale neighborhood (I say infamous because of the well-publicized tragedies there: the horrible cop shooting (murder) at BART's Fruitvale Station and the deadly fire at the unauthorized, code-violating factory loft apartment a few years ago).

And add to this the famous cable cars and the most extensive trolley-bus network in the nation -- and soon-to-be-electrified Caltrain, too. I could care less whether some BART trains may be dirty (if that were the case, let's write off the NYC subway!). San Francisco, hands down, towers over Denver and Dallas, rail transit-wise.
This is spot on. One aspect people are majorly overlooking is station placement - virtually all stations in SF, Oakland, and Berkeley are under (or elevated above) dense urban areas that stretch over miles. Dallas and Denver each barely have a handful of close together, at-grade urban “stations” in a small portion of their respective downtowns.

Last edited by Vincent_Adultman; 02-20-2019 at 10:15 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2019, 10:36 PM
 
4,132 posts, read 5,315,331 times
Reputation: 1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by zlxt View Post
Denver RTD rail system,


RTD rail system
DART Light Rail System

https://dart.org/maps/printrailmap.asp
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top