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Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Originally Posted by Drewjdeg
3. It doesn't have a "wow" factor. Madison is very picturesque sitting between two lakes, but there are no mountains or sandy beaches. Wisconsin offers a surprising amount of nature, but it can't really compare to out west. So again, some people find Wisconsin too boring.
Meh, the sandy beaches of the Wisconsin River (such as in Mazo) are some of the nicest I've been to, personally.
Reno is a cracked out version of Vegas. And Vegad is not shangri la if you get my drift... Reno is cheap for a reason.
Sac is near nature, and if you can land a government job you are golden. But I would not recommend living there on low skill service wages. Most low income areas in Sac are unpleasant. You will need to make at least 40k to live in a decent studio downtown or an OK (not upscale)1 bedroom further out in the burbs.
If you like winter, the quality of life in Madison is hard to beat. There some people who don't like Madison though - which can pretty much be summed up in three cases.
1. Because of the nature of the economy (tech and government), Madison tends to attract transplants from the coasts that wouldn't normally move to a Midwestern metro with only 600k. Though Madison is very vibrant, some people think its too quiet, too sleepy.
2. Madison is not very diverse. I've heard from non-white friends that living in Madison can be an isolating experience. There is people from all over the world, but it's still very white.
3. It doesn't have a "wow" factor. Madison is very picturesque sitting between two lakes, but there are no mountains or sandy beaches. Wisconsin offers a surprising amount of nature, but it can't really compare to out west. So again, some people find Wisconsin too boring.
Metro of "600k" is pushing it... and, honestly, the idea of including Janesville, Beloit and Baraboo in its metropolitan area just doesn't feel right in the first place. Each are nearly an hour away with nothing but farmland in between. Hardly a "metro" worthy connection between those areas.
Madison feels like the 250k small town it is, and that is also what makes it special. Being the capital and hosting a major university - while sitting on an isthmus between two decent sized lakes and surrounded by some truly beautiful nature areas - quality of life can be great. The beauty of the area is truly not well understood by non-long-term residents.
1.Sacramento real estate is relatively expensive, maybe not as much as Miami, but definitely more so than Orlando (don't know where in Florida you're coming from).
2. Some nicer, eastern suburbs of Sacramento such as El Dorado hills are on the Sierra Nevada foothills so they're maybe only 45 minutes from some actual mountains. But still, they're 90 minutes (without traffic) from world-class skiing in Tahoe. Of course, there's always traffic, and most other places in Sacramento are 2 hours (without traffic) from the ski resorts.
3. Sacramento (within city limits) is pancake-flat. Flat as Florida, with an elevation of only 45 feet. But the Eastern suburbs have some rolling hills (hence the name El Dorado Hills).
4. There are two rivers: The Sacramento and The American. They have plenty of water year-round, and are clean enough for swimming and fishing. The water, even during the summer, can be quite chilly, though. Half an hour to the East, and you have a large reservoir (Lake Folsom), with decently warm summer waters.
5. It NEVER rains in the summer in Sacramento. It would sooner snow in Northern Florida than rain in Sacramento. That's how rare summer rain is. Also, It NEVER snows in Sacramento. Yes, we have frosty mornings and bone-chilling rain but never any snow. Of course, tornadoes, gigantic hail, etc. are also very rare.
6. Summers in Sacramento are hot (and get hotter as you go towards the East, where most of the suburbs are). They're very hot and dry (most days there's not even a cloud in the sky). You get nosebleeds, nasal congestion, cracked skin, and dandruff from the lack of moisture. Several days of consecutive 100+ degree heat happen several times a year. The record high was 115 degrees. There is a "Delta Breeze" in Sacramento itself but it weakens as you go to the Eastern suburbs.
Summer nights in Sacramento are chilly. Even if it's been 100 degrees during the day, chances are the summer early mornings are 55-60 degrees.
Sacramento and its suburbs are well-landscaped, with plenty of conifers (firs and pines), oaks and elms, earning its moniker as "The City of Trees." But get right outside the suburbs during the summer, and it's always brown and barren from the perpetually rainless summers.
In my opinion, Sacramento summers make Gulf Coast heat and humidity seem like a walk in the park. That's how bad Sacramento summers are. But winters are very rainy, similar to the Gulf Coast.
Metro of "600k" is pushing it... and, honestly, the idea of including Janesville, Beloit and Baraboo in its metropolitan area just doesn't feel right in the first place. Each are nearly an hour away with nothing but farmland in between. Hardly a "metro" worthy connection between those areas.
Madison feels like the 250k small town it is, and that is also what makes it special. Being the capital and hosting a major university - while sitting on an isthmus between two decent sized lakes and surrounded by some truly beautiful nature areas - quality of life can be great. The beauty of the area is truly not well understood by non-long-term residents.
The MSA doesn't include Rock County, Dane County alone is 500k people. Janesville, Beloit, and Baraboo is included within the CSA, which is 874,498k.
I think Madison is beautiful, but a lot of people think Wisconsin in general is boring. I could be wrong, but I believe Denver is the top destination for people moving out of Madison. All the time I hear: "Wisconsin is flat, there's no good skiing" "I want to be closer to the mountains" bla bla bla etc. TBH, I wouldn't move to Colorado, I'm repeating what I hear people say.
The MSA doesn't include Rock County, Dane County alone is 500k people. Janesville, Beloit, and Baraboo is included within the CSA, which is 874,498k.
I think Madison is beautiful, but a lot of people think Wisconsin in general is boring. I could be wrong, but I believe Denver is the top destination for people moving out of Madison. All the time I hear: "Wisconsin is flat, there's no good skiing" "I want to be closer to the mountains" bla bla bla etc. TBH, I wouldn't move to Colorado, I'm repeating what I hear people say.
Wisconsin isn't boring if you like nice Northwoods lakes, greenery, woods, and trails. Something that isn't as common in Colorado, lush landscape- unless you go way up in elevation where few people live. Wisconsin is often misunderstood because most associate the landscape with the populated metro areas of Milwaukee and Madison with mostly agrarian, and some woodsy landscapes mixed in. Mixed forest of pine and deciduous with some farms are common in central, southwest, east-central, and west-central portions of the state. Chequamegon and Nicolet National Forests and Northern Highland Forest occupy the northern 1/3 of the state, generally north of Wausau. Canadian Shield geologically, more in common with UP of Michigan and NE Minnesota. I don't tell too many people about it, too many outsiders will push real estate prices higher, and I plan on retiring to the Northwoods region.
Colorado is the hot state at the moment, in terms of in-migration, job growth, etc, but I think the cost of living increases will become too much there given the lower corresponding wage growth.
The MSA doesn't include Rock County, Dane County alone is 500k people. Janesville, Beloit, and Baraboo is included within the CSA, which is 874,498k.
I think Madison is beautiful, but a lot of people think Wisconsin in general is boring. I could be wrong, but I believe Denver is the top destination for people moving out of Madison. All the time I hear: "Wisconsin is flat, there's no good skiing" "I want to be closer to the mountains" bla bla bla etc. TBH, I wouldn't move to Colorado, I'm repeating what I hear people say.
Crap... you're right on the MSA/CSA. And I actually know quite a few folks from Madison that moved to Colorado (Boulder, Denver). But I also agree with you and GraniteStater that Madison - and WI in general - has a ton to offer to a person that loves the outdoors.
Door County, the UP, the northern woods... the Driftless Area.
If you need a professional job, Sacramento will smoke every one of these other suggested places by a wide margin. And its not even close.
Though, I'd only move once you are into your career. Trying to make rent in any place (most) where the average rents are over $600, from minimum wage jobs, is a losing proposition in my opinion. Try applying for a job, in Sacramento, with the State of California as another option until you get your programming career going. As a bonus, you will be very close to the Bay Area's tech economy.
Sacramento meets every other one of your requirements.
I'd strike Portland and Madison off of your list. If you need to park yourself for a while, before going to CA, then consider Boise (considering your requirements). However, you will want to eventually get to CA (given the choices you mentioned) and I would suggest trying to make that jump off of the bat.
If you need a professional job, Sacramento will smoke every one of these other suggested places by a wide margin. And its not even close.
Though, I'd only move once you are into your career. Trying to make rent in any place (most) where the average rents are over $600, from minimum wage jobs, is a losing proposition in my opinion. Try applying for a job, in Sacramento, with the State of California as another option until you get your programming career going. As a bonus, you will be very close to the Bay Area's tech economy.
Sacramento meets every other one of your requirements.
I'd strike Portland and Madison off of your list. If you need to park yourself for a while, before going to CA, then consider Boise (considering your requirements). However, you will want to eventually get to CA (given the choices you mentioned) and I would suggest trying to make that jump off of the bat.
I agree with this assessment about Sacramento, and Sacramento has the best weather of the pick.
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