Camden NJ vs East St.Louis IL vs Gary IN

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by midwest1

Garys crime rates are half of Camdens now. And as I stated before...Camdens location in the fiscally insane New Jersey, bleeding people like Illinois hardly compares well to Garys location vis-a-vis Indiana vs. Chicagos Illinois.

Key difference is that, despite very high out-migration, NJ is still growing in population. Mostly due to the fact that it has one of the highest immigration rates in the US.

Also, the Philly area overall, pound-for-pound, is actually in a more solid economic position than the Chicago area at the moment. Not to suggest that Chicago is doing as terrible as the national narrative lately has implied. But Philly has truly transitioned into a sustainable and solid (not gangbusters, but respectable) growth area, whereas Chicago has at least some more work to do to "right the ship."

[Count David]

Originally Posted by timmytimmycocopuff

If someone says East STL they are absolutely bonkers. That's like choosing to swim in a pool of Crocodiles over a pool of lizards.

True that, but East St. Louis is definitely my favorite. I have also been to Gary, but have never been to Camden.

Camden is by far the easiest to "fix", and obviously has bright spots already. Gary, while sad, just didn't have a ton of appeal for me personally. For just a bit more, one could live in Hammond or one of the other NWI suburbs or south Chicago suburbs. NWI is a very underrated area overall; it just doesn't speak to me like I think it should.

Something about East St. Louis though. It was the place that first piqued my interest in urban blight many years ago. Something about the colors you can see there, and the way the trees, grass, and weeds take over everything. The sadness and the dilapidation of the once grand housing stock and city streets. It also seems like it's in a slightly different biome than St. Louis itself, and simply just looks different compared to the surrounding area (much of St. Clair County looks the way I describe....it's just a more overwhelming green).

It is still a very horrible place, and while I hope it improves somehow, I don't want it to turn into an overpriced/hyped hipster enclave either (which may be the hope of some in this thread). What I think works in it's favor (or disfavor), is that the area as a whole is stagnant, and parts of St. Louis itself will hit the gentrification path first....with ESTL it really would be a start from scratch, as much of it is completely bombed out and/or abandoned.

[midwest1]

The most interesting thing for me about ESL is that its the closest city to Cahokia Mounds...which was the largest city ever built by Native Americans...so obviously its got a pretty advantageous location.

[Count David]

Originally Posted by midwest1

The most interesting thing for me about ESL is that its the closest city to Cahokia Mounds...which was the largest city ever built by Native Americans...so obviously its got a pretty advantageous location.

View from Monk's Mound:


Looks just like parts of East St. Louis itself (deserted/long abandoned ).