Which feels bigger/more vibrant? (Boston vs Seattle) (Chicago, size, neighborhood)
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I’ve never been to Boston but looking at maps it seems that Seattle’s downtown is larger than Boston’s or at least the part with the high rises. That being said Boston’s urban foot print is way larger and denser.
In terms of vibrancy Boston has 3 transit stations that handle more than 20,000 passengers/day and 11 than Handle over 10,000. Seattle has 1 that handles over 10,000.
I think that tells you a lot about how Boston is still much larger.
The DT feels more compact and vibrant, footprint maybe similar but add back bay and kendall sq and it feels much larger and connected.
To me where they really differ is continuing to the next and next and next set of neighborhoods, Boston seamlessly stays urban, Seattle falls off on two of three side for me almost immediately and up the hill it drops pretty quickly but has a few areas that maintain urbanity (thinking above the 5 where the nabe stays more urban)
Seattle even with all the growth feels smaller for me DT and especially smaller heading out with continuity
South Lake union while infilling doesn't feel all that urban and don't think it really ever will, like the nabe but its setting and actually lake are the lure for me not a streetcar and suburban looking apartments (even much of the office space looks to me edge citiish)
That said I do really like Seattle, its like a nice mix and change with good urbanity and different feel from a lot of the older school urban cities
I’ve never been to Boston but looking at maps it seems that Seattle’s downtown is larger than Boston’s or at least the part with the high rises. That being said Boston’s urban foot print is way larger and denser.
Well this is sort of the question, isn’t it? If we’re just looking at high rise districts, then Seattle’s probably come out on top of Boston’s (West End, Financial District, DTX, Chinatown, the Theater District, and the High Spine).
However, if you include Boston’s low and mid rise downtown neighborhoods (Ink Block, Bulfinch Triangle, North End, Fenway, Kendall, Seaport, South End, Bay Village, Back Bay, and Beacon Hill) then I’d be surprised if Seattle stacks up. However, I’ll repeat that I know very little about Seattle, so maybe it does.
In terms of vibrancy Boston has 3 transit stations that handle more than 20,000 passengers/day and 11 than Handle over 10,000. Seattle has 1 that handles over 10,000.
I think that tells you a lot about how Boston is still much larger.
You're counting rail (sort of) but not buses? Seattle is adding rail but remains more bus-oriented. Roughly 25% of greater Downtown workers drove alone at last estimate, a big change from 30% earlier in this decade.
You're counting rail (sort of) but not buses? Seattle is adding rail but remains more bus-oriented. Roughly 25% of greater Downtown workers drove alone at last estimate, a big change from 30% earlier in this decade.
Boston does have higher transit usage regardless.
But it’s still an order of magnitude more stations, Boston is still less than 65% Subway.
Obviously there isn’t 10x more people in Downtown Boston during the day but it signifiers there is still a significant gap.
Also since the Rail/Bus tunnel downtown is together I’m not sure how the fare control works so those Downtown Stations in Seattle might count combined ridership
Am I the only one that feels backward in the N/S and E/W orientation when in Seattle
Intuitively I always feel they are opposite of what I expect
Bizarrely enough I have that same problem when I go to Portland - my internal orientation is totally upside down from reality.
Re:South Lake Union. This is all personal impression but the infill has progressed to the point that it feels more real now to me. Its still definitely a new office district at its heart and therefore most lively 9-5 but the boundary between it and the rest of downtown (basically Denny) has blurred quite a bit so its not a sharp change. And honestly the apartments look like the the same as urban apartments being built in every other city: 4-10 stories blocks with underground parking, balconies etc. (Don't get me started on how sad it is that we don't really have regional building styles anymore. New construction is homogeneous)
Note: I really like the old architecture in the neighborhoods around downtown where density drops down to 8-10k / sqm so I'm very ambivalent about them changing especially since the only viable replacements are either the weird 6-pack townhouses or big breadbox apartments. Nevertheless the process continues to occur and I expect we're going to look more node-like over time with more dramatically built up sections along the light rail stations (somewhat like Vancouver)
In terms of vibrancy Boston has 3 transit stations that handle more than 20,000 passengers/day and 11 than Handle over 10,000. Seattle has 1 that handles over 10,000.
I think that tells you a lot about how Boston is still much larger.
Seattle actually now has two stations that handle over 10K (Westlake and UW). But your point obviously still holds. The most impressive transit corridor in Seattle as of right now is 3rd Ave downtown. It's the busiest bus corridor in the country.
I do suspect that with the new subway stations and rail lines opening in 2021, 2023, and 2024 respectively, that we will see a significant jump in the number of stations that handle at least 10K riders in Seattle (maybe up to 5-6).
As for the broader question, I think the two are comparable downtown but citywide and especially looking at the full urban area (including Cambridge, Somerville, etc.) Boston runs away with it in terms of urbanity, walkability, and big city feel. It is, after all, a legacy city in terms of land use and urban layout, while most of Seattle (outside the urban core) became more highly developed post-automobile.
Last edited by Vincent_Adultman; 01-23-2019 at 06:44 PM..
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