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Old Yesterday, 05:58 PM
 
Location: East Tennessee and Atlanta
3,253 posts, read 8,450,068 times
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LA is opposite both Chicago and NYC. LA embraces the car, and sprawls out into valleys--with gorgeous mountains surrounding the city and the Pacific Ocean hugging the western side.

NYC is dense, tightly packed and vertical. Very reliant on the subway, bus, bike, ferry or walking to get from point A to point B. Los Angeles grew from reliance on the automobile, and built its city to accommodate the car, rather than to accommodate walkability or public transportation.

Chicago is also dense and vertical downtown. However, it resembles New York much more than Los Angeles.

I would say that in the past decade or so, LA has begun to rapidly expand its public transportation rapid rail system, and that is encouraging. Also, its downtown has been adding more density in terms of high-rises. All good things, I think. Less sprawl and less traffic-orientation.
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Old Yesterday, 07:15 PM
 
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LA is nothing like Chicago or NYC. I know you're trying to force a comparison here, but LA is somehow a cross between Houston's bland sprawl and Seattle's western-template downtown (though not as nice). Cutting through these two comparisons is a fairly dynamic region (not city).
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Old Yesterday, 07:23 PM
 
Location: East Coast
173 posts, read 231,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
The Chicago area has around 300,000 jews. The LA area is a little over 600,000 while the NYC population is over 2 million (other sources are more like 500K for LA area and 1.5 million for NY area). In terms of population alone, LA is much closer to Chicago than it is to NYC. Even percentage wise - NYC area is something like 11% Jewish while the LA area is a little under 5% and Chicago is a little over 3%.

I'm not religious, but I am Jewish with my entire dad's side from LA (who had moved from NYC in the 1930s). Just from my own viewpoint, I find Chicago and LA much closer in terms of cultural Jewish things than to NYC. NYC is in its own planet when it comes to this stuff and in America it's not even close. All 3 of these cities have their fair share of orthodox, Hasidism, etc but NYC is much, much, much more than LA and Chicago. I find percentage wise that LA and Chicago are higher when it comes to secularism, reformism, etc. Just my own experiences in all 3 places as someone who is Jewish, I never once thought that LA was like NYC in terms of this. It's more like Chicago, Miami, Philadelphia, SF, etc areas than the NYC area when talking about Jewish things. To me at least, personally.

Jewish folks don't make 100% of the white population in any of those 3 MSAs. We're talking about a subset of a subset.

The key thing is Chicago is so overwhelming more German and non-Jewish Polish/Ukrainian/Eastern European than LA is. Denying that aspect of Chicago's identity wouldn't make much sense. That's why if it came down to "choose one that is more similar/less different" NYC would take that comparison. Even with that being said, the similarities of White population between LA and NYC isn't even that much.
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Old Yesterday, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
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Originally Posted by MrIndependent View Post
Jewish folks don't make 100% of the white population in any of those 3 MSAs. We're talking about a subset of a subset.

The key thing is Chicago is so overwhelming more German and non-Jewish Polish/Ukrainian/Eastern European than LA is. Denying that aspect of Chicago's identity wouldn't make much sense. That's why if it came down to "choose one that is more similar/less different" NYC would take that comparison. Even with that being said, the similarities of White population between LA and NYC isn't even that much.
LA and Chicago in terms of "Jewish-ness" are definitely closer together than LA and NYC are in this. This isn't even a question in my mind as someone who is Jewish. NYC is a completely different type of animal when it comes to this.

The orthodoxy, hasidism, etc is incredibly more palpable in NYC easily than either LA or Chicago (though both have sizable populations of that it's still not close to NYC by any stretch. Anybody who says otherwise either doesn't know what they're talking about or are incredibly crazy). Chicago and LA are only separated in terms of 200,000 in population in this, whereas LA and NYC are separated by 1,000,000. I feel like living in NYC that when people find out I'm Jewish, I kind of have to spew out more knowledge about the culture and religion than I ever have had to do in Chicago or LA, even though I know many Jews in both of those places too. People didn't care as much in LA or Chicago as they do here in NYC.

I actually find it fascinating that people would find LA and NYC similar in terms of this - it's interesting. Apparently goys see it a different way.
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Old Yesterday, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,764 posts, read 3,464,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
LA and Chicago in terms of "Jewish-ness" are definitely closer together than LA and NYC are in this. This isn't even a question in my mind as someone who is Jewish. NYC is a completely different type of animal when it comes to this.

The orthodoxy, hasidism, etc is incredibly more palpable in NYC easily than either LA or Chicago (though both have sizable populations of that it's still not close to NYC by any stretch. Anybody who says otherwise either doesn't know what they're talking about or are incredibly crazy). Chicago and LA are only separated in terms of 200,000 in population in this, whereas LA and NYC are separated by 1,000,000. I feel like living in NYC that when people find out I'm Jewish, I kind of have to spew out more knowledge about the culture and religion than I ever have had to do in Chicago or LA, even though I know many Jews in both of those places too. People didn't care as much in LA or Chicago as they do here in NYC.

I actually find it fascinating that people would find LA and NYC similar in terms of this - it's interesting. Apparently goys see it a different way.
I'm not Jewish and have never been to Chicago but a similarity between NYC and LA would be the relatively large numbers of orthodox Jewish neighborhoods. Obviously fewer here in LA than in NYC but very noticeable and prominent. For example there are lots of neighborhoods here that have an Eruv. Way more than Chicago according to Wikipedia. Similarly lots of neighborhoods that don't require a button to be pushed to activate the crosswalk that appear to be that way for religious reasons. Maybe Chicago is similar but there are definitely pockets here where Jewish culture dominates or is very significant.
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Old Yesterday, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
I'm not Jewish and have never been to Chicago but a similarity between NYC and LA would be the relatively large numbers of orthodox Jewish neighborhoods. Obviously fewer here in LA than in NYC but very noticeable and prominent. For example there are lots of neighborhoods here that have an Eruv. Way more than Chicago according to Wikipedia. Similarly lots of neighborhoods that don't require a button to be pushed to activate the crosswalk that appear to be that way for religious reasons. Maybe Chicago is similar but there are definitely pockets here where Jewish culture dominates or is very significant.
NYC Jewish Population: 1.5 million
LA Jewish Population: 517,000
Chicago Jewish Population: ~300,000

The difference between LA and NYC in terms of Jews is 1 million people. The difference between Chicago and LA in terms of Jews is a little over 200,000. Literally, the difference in Jewish population between NYC and LA is 5 times greater than that of LA and Chicago. It's not even close.

As someone who has lived in both Chicago and NYC, and spent a lot of time in LA due to an entire side of my family living there (my dad is from there and all my close family on his side still live in LA), and who is also Jewish....it's not even a question on this. LA and Chicago are definitely more similar in terms of Jewish culture than LA and NYC are. It's not even close. The amount of religious feeling is just palpable in NYC. You will get it in various neighborhoods in LA and Chicago as they both have areas of very religious Jews, but it's not even close to what NYC is. LA and Chicago are a bit more laid back in terms of this. You have neighborhoods in LA that are more orthodox - I don't know how that's different from Chicago at all or even places like Pittsburgh. All these places have those areas, and you will be able to get classic Ashkenazi food elsewhere in the city and area. NYC though? Look, I can get even just a basic bagel and lox, matzo ball soup, or even blintz here in a million more places than any other city and not even close.

As far as Chicago goes - yes sure you've never been there so it's hard for you to talk about it. The north part of the city, mainly West Rogers Park, has a lot of orthodox and Hasidic Jews. There are many, many synagogues and businesses up there that cater to these populations only. In downtown Chicago there are a handful of synagogues (including Lubavitch Chabad and another Conservative congregation), as well as a JTS (Jewish Theological Seminary). There is also a handful of synagogues in Lakeview a little north of downtown, some in Kenwood and Hyde Park on the South Side, and Jewish centers in other neighborhoods. The suburbs have even more than the city of course - Skokie, which is bordering the city not far from West Rogers Park for example has numerous synagogues and Orthodox day schools. It also has the Hebrew Theological College, which is a Yeshiva. Also the Illinois Holocaust Museum and Education Center is there, which is not small by any means. Many other suburbs like Buffalo Grove, Winnetka, Deerfield, Evanston, etc have large populations too.

I mean there's other things you could claim that LA and NYC are closer to Chicago on. Maybe fashion and art forwardness in a way, for example. Maybe being international is another one (Chicago is international, but not as much as those other 2). But to think that the "Jewishness" of LA is in any way close to NYC is just f'ing laughable. I'm sorry, but it is. Chicago and LA are definitely closer together in this respect.
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Old Yesterday, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Sorry. I'm not Jewish and they seemed similar to me. I'm not as informed as you. I guess that makes my experience ****ing laughable. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old Yesterday, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
Sorry. I'm not Jewish and they seemed similar to me. I'm not as informed as you. I guess that makes my experience ****ing laughable. Thanks for the feedback.
Well, I'd basically just have to question how much time you've actually spent here in NY, because all of these things are much more noticeable than anywhere else in the country by far (and the world outside of Israel). Also, you've never been to Chicago so, I'm not sure how you can speak to experience in a place you've never visited once. Spend a good month in NYC though, and maybe you'll begin to see how big the difference is. NYC is really just on another level - not only is the population much higher than the next highest place, but you just feel it more in so many places. Again, I'm not religious or even close to it, but the only time in my life that I started questioning whether I should even do anything religious was after I moved to NYC.
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Old Yesterday, 09:48 PM
 
808 posts, read 215,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIndependent View Post
Interesting topic. I really enjoy all 3 cities, each for very different reasons. I think overall, LA is more like NYC than Chicago.
Let me explain why

Demography

Whites:
White people are a minority in the LA MSA. This is not particularly common by mainland USA standards. NY has a plurality of Whites being the biggest group and Chicago is an outright majority white in its MSA.
The White population in Chicago looks more like the Midwest at large. Lots of German, large numbers of non-Jewish Eastern Europeans (Polish, Ukrainian, etc). NYC is not like that. You have lots of Italians, Irish, and Jewish Eastern Europeans making up a plurality of the White population.

I guess on the topic of White people, LA has more in common with NYC.

Hispanic:
Chicago and LA both have majority Mexican Hispanic populations. NYC's Hispanic population is culturally very different being mainly Puerto Ricans and Dominicans.

Black:
Chicago and LA both have fairly small immigrant Black populations. NYC's is heavy with West Indian, Afro-Latino and African immigrant groups, mixed in with some non-immigrant Blacks.

Asian:
NYC and LA have more in common here. Both have large and diverse Asian populations. Chicago's is noticeably smaller and is less East Asian (a plurality of Indians)

Socially/Culturally:
I think the social and cultural DNA of New York and Los Angeles are much closer than that of Chicago's. At its core, Chicago is a "classically American" city, that happens to be very large and has a bunch of more recent immigrants living in it.

LA and NYC at their core are equal parts Classic American, equal parts New Age International. I'm not saying Classic American is better or worse than New Age International. They are just different social-cultural realities. That difference manifests itself in local politics, the arts, cuisine, etc

Economically:
Both Chicago and NY are economic powerhouses, but LA's economy seems more different to Chicago's. Entertainment is big business in LA as it is somewhat in NYC. Also, LA's startup tech of Silicon Beach feels more like NY than Chicago.
NYC has a large Mexican population too, as well as many non-Jewish Eastern Europeans.
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Old Today, 12:01 AM
 
Location: East Coast
173 posts, read 231,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
LA and Chicago in terms of "Jewish-ness" are definitely closer together than LA and NYC are in this. This isn't even a question in my mind as someone who is Jewish. NYC is a completely different type of animal when it comes to this.

The orthodoxy, hasidism, etc is incredibly more palpable in NYC easily than either LA or Chicago (though both have sizable populations of that it's still not close to NYC by any stretch. Anybody who says otherwise either doesn't know what they're talking about or are incredibly crazy). Chicago and LA are only separated in terms of 200,000 in population in this, whereas LA and NYC are separated by 1,000,000. I feel like living in NYC that when people find out I'm Jewish, I kind of have to spew out more knowledge about the culture and religion than I ever have had to do in Chicago or LA, even though I know many Jews in both of those places too. People didn't care as much in LA or Chicago as they do here in NYC.

I actually find it fascinating that people would find LA and NYC similar in terms of this - it's interesting. Apparently goys see it a different way.

This has gotten off on a tangent. The original point I was making was that the white population in Chicago is less similar to LA's than the white population in NYC. I added the caveat that the similarities are overall fairly thin across the board. But the OP of this thread was forcing a comparison between NYC vs Chicago, so I was just playing along :P

I think something like religious identity is a very useful way at observing demographic sub-groups. I don't mean in a spiritual or doctrine way, but in the different ways religious traditions affect culture.

For example, take a look at the below for Whites in the three MSAs being discussed. I've omitted atheist, as that isn't a religious tradition in the classic definition.

Chicago: Catholic, Orthodox Eastern European, Jewish
NYC: Catholic, Jewish, Muslim
LA: Non-denominational/SoCal megachurch, Jewish, Mormon (nation's 2nd largest LDS presence outside of Salt Lake City MSA)
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