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Old 02-18-2019, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles & Houston
1,437 posts, read 713,249 times
Reputation: 1506

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Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below... View Post
Anytime you are loosing jobs as we were it needs to be cause for alarm. The only reason it wasn’t worse had nothing to do with Houston. It was because the national economy was good at the time.

The effects were pretty bad. The population kept growing because of natural growth and international growth (particularly illegal immigrants), but we lost a great deal of domestic migrants those years.
There was one year in which Houston lost domestic migrants since 1995, which was 2017. Houston continued to lead in LEGAL international immigration out of the three cities. Houston annual population estimates with migration counts. This myth of "Houston doesn't attract very many domestic migrants" is so 1994. Since the late 90s, it's been quite the opposite. I'm willing to bet that the domestic migrant numbers will be back in the positive for Houston when the next estimates are released soon (for 2018). Besides, why does that matter so much? Atlanta still gained plenty of domestic migrants back when it was just about the last Sunbelt city to emerge from the Great Recession.

Do you have the numbers for illegal international immigration?

In regards to job loss, it was very minimal compared to the bust of the 80s and in 2017 Houston was the second leading gainer for jobs in the country. Does Houston need to continue to diversify? Yes. There's growth in the city's economy for additional tourism (two theme parks have been proposed), tech, logistics/distribution, and the creative-space (innovation district development). But it's no where near what it was in the 70s, 80s, or 90s. It wasn't just the US economy doing well that stopped the job loss from being worse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by R1070 View Post
And we don't hear people in Dallas or Austin saying Houston is cooler. Nothing in Houston like the strip on Cedar Springs, Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, etc.
Yeah you do. I heard that all the time when I lived in DFW and knew plenty that went down to Houston to party for a weekend. It also depends on which crowd you're talking about.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:32 PM
 
2,778 posts, read 1,283,760 times
Reputation: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
There was one year in which Houston lost domestic migrants since 1995, which was 2017. Houston continued to lead in LEGAL international immigration out of the three cities. Houston annual population estimates with migration counts. This myth of "Houston doesn't attract very many domestic migrants" is so 1994. Since the late 90s, it's been quite the opposite. I'm willing to bet that the domestic migrant numbers will be back in the positive for Houston when the next estimates are released soon (for 2018). Besides, why does that matter so much? Atlanta still gained plenty of domestic migrants back when it was just about the last Sunbelt city to emerge from the Great Recession.

Do you have the numbers for illegal international immigration?

In regards to job loss, it was very minimal compared to the bust of the 80s and in 2017 Houston was the second leading gainer for jobs in the country. Does Houston need to continue to diversify? Yes. There's growth in the city's economy for additional tourism (two theme parks have been proposed), tech, logistics/distribution, and the creative-space (innovation district development). But it's no where near what it was in the 70s, 80s, or 90s. It wasn't just the US economy doing well that stopped the job loss from being worse.

Yeah you do. I heard that all the time when I lived in DFW and knew plenty that went down to Houston to party for a weekend. It also depends on which crowd you're talking about.
Great for Houston to think of getting a theme park. After all. Dallas and San Antonio have Six Flags ones. As for pleasure night out to say -- lets go to Houston from Dallas tomorrow?

They are 225-miles apart driving. Maybe in Texas and LA that is not too distant? But to me it is. Definately not a pleasure night out. Maybe overnight or weekend.

Corporate America seeks low-tax and cost from them states. Especially if States provide extra incentives. Far less just being a better city or weather even where winters are concerned. But once cost rise more in spending, need for more tax $$$ in more infrastructure building and improvements. The migrations will slow. Luckily these booming cities will have enough to expand upon without Corporate migrations south. Like China able itself.

Houston can't even do new curbing thru its booming inner-loop. Power-line poles remain in all brand-new infill areas and Da Ditches..... I would never want a new home where a big ugly pole's in front with a transformer even. Unless it is waaaay cheaper. Old areas of intact housing yes ... but not all brand new housing. The developer must or fahgetaboutit. So you see all kinds of some may, some don't .... with most not.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles & Houston
1,437 posts, read 713,249 times
Reputation: 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Great for Houston to think of getting a theme park. After all. Dallas and San Antonio have Six Flags ones. As for pleasure night out to say -- lets go to Houston from Dallas tomorrow?
Well aware. And Six Flags greatly regrets selling off Astroworld based on land value because they'd be making a lot more money today. They're back in the Houston market now though and perhaps that can get expanded with one of these two additional theme park proposals. Dallas and SA don't have beaches, nor boardwalks/piers! At least theme parks can be built. You can't really build ocean piers in Dallas or SA.

Quote:
They are 225-miles apart driving. Maybe in Texas and LA that is not too distant? But to me it is. Definately not a pleasure night out. Maybe overnight or weekend.
Yeah that's exactly why I said for a weekend. Lol!

Quote:
Corporate America seeks low-tax and cost from them states. Especially if States provide extra incentives. Far less just being a better city or weather even where winters are concerned. But once cost rise more in spending, need for more tax $$$ in more infrastructure building and improvements. The migrations will slow. Luckily these booming cities will have enough to expand upon without Corporate migrations south. Like China able itself.

Houston can't even do new curbing thru its booming inner-loop. Power-line poles remain in all brand-new infill areas and Da Ditches..... I would never want a new home where a big ugly pole's in front with a transformer even. Unless it is waaaay cheaper. Old areas of intact housing yes ... but not all brand new housing. The developer must or fahgetaboutit. So you see all kinds of some may, some don't .... with most not.
There's been a lot of reconstruction in these areas.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
773 posts, read 238,143 times
Reputation: 952
Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
There was one year in which Houston lost domestic migrants since 1995, which was 2017. Houston continued to lead in LEGAL international immigration out of the three cities. Houston annual population estimates with migration counts. This myth of "Houston doesn't attract very many domestic migrants" is so 1994. Since the late 90s, it's been quite the opposite. I'm willing to bet that the domestic migrant numbers will be back in the positive for Houston when the next estimates are released soon (for 2018). Besides, why does that matter so much? Atlanta still gained plenty of domestic migrants back when it was just about the last Sunbelt city to emerge from the Great Recession.

Do you have the numbers for illegal international immigration?

In regards to job loss, it was very minimal compared to the bust of the 80s and in 2017 Houston was the second leading gainer for jobs in the country. Does Houston need to continue to diversify? Yes. There's growth in the city's economy for additional tourism (two theme parks have been proposed), tech, logistics/distribution, and the creative-space (innovation district development). But it's no where near what it was in the 70s, 80s, or 90s. It wasn't just the US economy doing well that stopped the job loss from being worse.



Yeah you do. I heard that all the time when I lived in DFW and knew plenty that went down to Houston to party for a weekend. It also depends on which crowd you're talking about.
Lets take it in pieces.

First why Houston didnt bottom out as bad as it did during the oil bust in the 80s. Yes, the most important factor was the well preformance of the US economy during the time. It wasnt the only factor, but it was the most important one. Other big pieces were the oil boom between 2010 and 2014 and low natural gas prices. Dont take it from me, take it from a Houston based economist that writes for Forbes and teaches at U of H:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenerg.../#1bf5f6a655db

In both case (the oil boom and needed the US economy to come to our rescue), it highlights that we are completely economically dominated by the oil and gas industry. Dallas and Atlanta dont have one single industry that controls their economic well being. We dont have a diverse economy. Im not saying that to put Houston down, its just a fact. Is it more diverse than in the early 80s? Sure but weve got a LONG way to go.

Now for illegal immigration. Houston has the highest concentration of illegal immigrants per capita of all major metro areas of the US. Now, Im not a right winger. Im perfectly fine with them being here, but it does make us more vulnerable should a wide scale crackdown ever come about. Our economy would crash due to a massive labor shortage. We really depend on them for our economy. Dallas also has a massive illegal immigrant population, but its at a significantly lower per capita amount. 8.7% of the total residents of Greater Houston are undocumented immigrants. Most of our illegal immigrants arent actually from Mexico but from Central American nations like Honduras and El Salvador.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/most-un...eas-1486669245

As for domestic immigrants, yes Houston had been seeing a healthy amount up until recently where we did lose some for a year. Houston does receive significantly less domestic migrants than Dallas or Atlanta. Thats not a good or bad thing per se, its just an observation.
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles & Houston
1,437 posts, read 713,249 times
Reputation: 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below... View Post
Lets take it in pieces.

First why Houston didnt bottom out as bad as it did during the oil bust in the 80s. Yes, the most important factor was the well preformance of the US economy during the time. It wasnt the only factor, but it was the most important one. Other big pieces were the oil boom between 2010 and 2014 and low natural gas prices. Dont take it from me, take it from a Houston based economist that writes for Forbes and teaches at U of H:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenerg.../#1bf5f6a655db

In both case (the oil boom and needed the US economy to come to our rescue), it highlights that we are completely economically dominated by the oil and gas industry.
Looks like we're saying the same thing here.

Quote:
Dallas and Atlanta dont have one single industry that controls their economic well being. We dont have a diverse economy. Im not saying that to put Houston down, its just a fact. Is it more diverse than in the early 80s? Sure but weve got a LONG way to go.
Of course and Houston probably won't ever have an economy as diverse as these two but it can still attract the same industries (outside of media in Atl). Houston has done a better job there. Neither Dallas or Atlanta will become an energy capital. It took the best years in decades for DFW to coincide with the absolute worst years Houston has seen in two decades, in order for DFW to have more economic output. What I mean is, it won't take too much diversification to get the job done. The city leaders need to go out and find that next company looking to move or build a corporate headquarters. There are companies looking to build Latin American HQs in Miami. Houston should get in on that action.

And personally, I don't see Atlanta quite on the level of Houston and Dallas collectively, though it is in most areas. The population difference between Atlanta and DFW/Houston has doubled since 2000, while the difference between DFW and Houston has had a small decrease (3k). Their economies are also a bit larger.

Quote:
Now for illegal immigration. Houston has the highest concentration of illegal immigrants per capita of all major metro areas of the US. Now, Im not a right winger. Im perfectly fine with them being here, but it does make us more vulnerable should a wide scale crackdown ever come about. Our economy would crash due to a massive labor shortage. We really depend on them for our economy. Dallas also has a massive illegal immigrant population, but its at a significantly lower per capita amount. 8.7% of the total residents of Greater Houston are undocumented immigrants.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/most-un...eas-1486669245

As for domestic immigrants, yes Houston had been seeing a healthy amount up until recently where we did lose some for a year. Houston does receive significantly less domestic migrants than Dallas or Atlanta. Thats not a good or bad thing per se, its just an observation.
Yeah and that 2% points difference makes sense considering Houston is closer to the border. Also part of the reason why Houston has had more births than DFW the last few years, despite being smaller by about 600k people.

As far as migration, since 2000, their domestic migration (and international):
DFW: 687,704 (472,458)
Houston: 513,514 (549,808)
Atlanta: 603,536 (338,168)

But since 2010:
DFW: 369,622 (185,964)
Houston: 273,005 (260,385)
Atlanta: 188,169 (130,807)

DFW leads the way with domestic migration, like it has been for 30 years. With the location being further away from the inland populated areas and the economy not being as diversified, Houston has become more popular with people moving around in the US. Imagine if the economy continues to become more diversified.
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:39 PM
 
13,156 posts, read 21,454,451 times
Reputation: 4270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Maybe you don't care for it, but they are among the most consumed genres in the world and are extremely mainstream. It might not be your music of choice, but it's everywhere.
This.
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:33 PM
 
2,778 posts, read 1,283,760 times
Reputation: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Maybe you don't care for it, but they are among the most consumed genres in the world and are extremely mainstream. It might not be your music of choice, but it's everywhere.
Being on Rap and its variations .... trends in music sometimes come and go. Funk and Disco in the 70s came and went. They clearly left their mark. Disco lived on in Dance music since. Classic Rock had a looong run. It underwent changes but endured thru generations and decades.

Judging from the like of Classic Rock by Millennials or Gen Y and the new next Gen Z. They they and those older .... have vive rise to radio stations switching format from Top 20 to a 80s thru Today on, or all 80s even. I can chose like 4 local stations in my car. I'm in Central PA and not a Big metro. But I noted the trend the past year.

I too listen to very little now .... of the Top 20 now stations. I was fine with ... in Top 20 radio thru the 2000s stations in format. Rap influence just took over. I still did thru most of the 2000s with generally Top 20 or Country mostly radio stations found. But note the trend to a many decades of Top Hits format now.

I firmly believe It's a kind of backlash to Rap blends with Asian rhythms too. Even the Grammy's were on more Pop and of course its honors to Motown, Dolly Parton and Dianna Ross. A Folk singer even took the show and a Newer Country duo was very good.

Just saying.... Rap and its variations. Clearly have had a big rise. But I see somewhat a backlash if FM radio especially.... changes in format are a omen ....

I'd see Houston and Dallas as still Big Country markets. But it is really National and the Atlanta boasting rights genre of Raps rise.

Last edited by DavePa; 02-18-2019 at 07:43 PM..
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,358 posts, read 26,428,262 times
Reputation: 9228
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Being on Rap and its variations .... trends in music sometimes come and go. Funk and Disco in the 70s came and went. They clearly left their mark. Disco lived on in Dance music since. Classic Rock had a looong run. It underwent changes but endured thru generations and decades.

Judging from the like of Classic Rock by Millennials or Gen Y and the new next Gen Z. They they and those older .... have vive rise to radio stations switching format from Top 20 to a 80s thru Today on, or all 80s even. I can chose like 4 local stations in my car. I'm in Central PA and not a Big metro. But I noted the trend the past year.

I too listen to very little now .... of the Top 20 now stations. I was fine with ... in Top 20 radio thru the 2000s stations in format. Rap influence just took over. I still did thru most of the 2000s with generally Top 20 or Country mostly radio stations found. But note the trend to a many decades of Top Hits format now.

I firmly believe It's a kind of backlash to Rap blends with Asian rhythms too. Even the Grammy's were on more Pop and of course its honors to Motown, Dolly Parton and Dianna Ross. A Folk singer even took the show and a Newer Country duo was very good.

Just saying.... Rap and its variations. Clearly have had a big rise. But I see somewhat a backlash if FM radio especially.... changes in format are a omen ....

I'd see Houston and Dallas as still Big Country markets. But it is really National and the Atlanta boasting rights genre of Raps rise.
Houston is probably bigger on Rap than it is on country.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
773 posts, read 238,143 times
Reputation: 952
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Being on Rap and its variations .... trends in music sometimes come and go. Funk and Disco in the 70s came and went. They clearly left their mark. Disco lived on in Dance music since. Classic Rock had a looong run. It underwent changes but endured thru generations and decades.

Judging from the like of Classic Rock by Millennials or Gen Y and the new next Gen Z. They they and those older .... have vive rise to radio stations switching format from Top 20 to a 80s thru Today on, or all 80s even. I can chose like 4 local stations in my car. I'm in Central PA and not a Big metro. But I noted the trend the past year.

I too listen to very little now .... of the Top 20 now stations. I was fine with ... in Top 20 radio thru the 2000s stations in format. Rap influence just took over. I still did thru most of the 2000s with generally Top 20 or Country mostly radio stations found. But note the trend to a many decades of Top Hits format now.

I firmly believe It's a kind of backlash to Rap blends with Asian rhythms too. Even the Grammy's were on more Pop and of course its honors to Motown, Dolly Parton and Dianna Ross. A Folk singer even took the show and a Newer Country duo was very good.

Just saying.... Rap and its variations. Clearly have had a big rise. But I see somewhat a backlash if FM radio especially.... changes in format are a omen ....

I'd see Houston and Dallas as still Big Country markets. But it is really National and the Atlanta boasting rights genre of Raps rise.
Did you just say Houston is big on country? Genuinely curious, have you ever been here?

The biggest genre of music here is rap by far.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
773 posts, read 238,143 times
Reputation: 952
I didnít take issue with anything you said except this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
Yeah and that 2% points difference makes sense considering Houston is closer to the border. Also part of the reason why Houston has had more births than DFW the last few years, despite being smaller by about 600k people.
.
Geographic proximity has very little to do with it at all. Chicago and Dallasí foreign born and illegal Mexican population is higher than Houstonís. Houston just has a lot more illegal immigrants from Central America. If proximity was the reason for illegal immigration from south of the border, youíll have to explain Chicagoís very high illegal immigration population. Donít forget NYC has the highest undocumented population and itís not a car ride away from any country except Canada.

Geography is not the answer here.
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