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Hoquiam, WA,right on the coast, averages a little more than 2 inches of rain in July, and is still highly seasonal, with heavy rain in the winter and dry in the summer https://www.usclimatedata.com/climat...tates/uswa0681
Yes, yes. But the driest summer months still grant 7-8 days of rain average. Combined with average highs those months not even reaching 70F, the area certainly maintains its verdant green through the summer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoquia...ington#Climate
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But I'm not even sure why we're talking about that, since the thread is about Seattle vs Atlanta. Who cares about what happens right along the coast since Seattle isn't right along the coast?
It shows how off you are about the West Coast climate, which is surprising given your extensive living experience. That, in turn, compromises the integrity of your assessment regarding this thread's question. This also applies to many others in this thread, however.
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The tall trees on the west coast have more to do with historical/geological happenstances than anything else. Chile, New Zealand and Norway have similar coastal rainforests as the Pacific NW but don't have the super-tall trees the NW coast has. Plus, as posters above mentioned, there *are* rainforests in the southern Appalachians.
Right, so the climate clearly must be suitable for them in order to survive and thrive those thousands-millions of years after such happenstances. Natural selection at its finest.
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Once again I lived in Seattle for 25 years. Seattle actually does get spells with cold, arctic (and dry) air. It probably gets colder than Atlanta.
Nope. Just check out the record lows. Seattle is 0F, but Atlanta checks in with that -9F!
Now look at the mean-minimums (the average lowest temperature you can expect for a given month): Seattle can expect temperatures no lower than 24F, whereas Atlanta can expect temperatures down to the teens!
So, although Atlanta is warmer on average than Seattle during winter, it also clearly has higher temperature variability, causing it to regularly see cold temperatures more extreme than Seattle often times.
Yes, yes. But the driest summer months still grant 7-8 days of rain average. Combined with average highs those months not even reaching 70F, the area certainly maintains its verdant green through the summer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoquia...ington#Climate
It shows how off you are about the West Coast climate, which is surprising given your extensive living experience. That, in turn, compromises the integrity of your assessment regarding this thread's question. This also applies to many others in this thread, however.
This particular sub-argument started when you said something about Seattle being in the rain shadow in the summer. Which, as I said, is irrelevant - and not just because there's relatively little precipitation to be shadowed in the summer anyway, but also because the climate directly on the coast (west of the mountains) is irrelevant, because Seattle isn't directly on the coast. Me pointing out that the climate of some other spot on the west coast is irrelevant to the climate of Seattle is not a lack of understanding, it's just pointing out that it's irrelevant, which it is.
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Right, so the climate clearly must be suitable for them in order to survive and thrive those thousands-millions of years after such happenstances. Natural selection at its finest.
Which has nothing to do with what you said, and with what I responded to, but that's besides the point. If the west coast didn't happen to be dominated by conifers, they would have forests more like Chile or Norway, which aren't dominated by super-tall trees.
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Nope. Just check out the record lows. Seattle is 0F, but Atlanta checks in with that -9F!
Now look at the mean-minimums (the average lowest temperature you can expect for a given month): Seattle can expect temperatures no lower than 24F, whereas Atlanta can expect temperatures down to the teens!
So, although Atlanta is warmer on average than Seattle during winter, it also clearly has higher temperature variability, causing it to regularly see cold temperatures more extreme than Seattle often times.
They aren't that different. In fact, your extreme low temperatures aren't all that different.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue at this point. Are you trying to say extreme temperature swings in the winter preclude Atlanta from being more green? Then how come the Appalachian rain forest - which starts just a little north of Atlanta - exists?
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Can I have those cherries you picked?
Those are typical Atlanta (and in general, Southeast) winter suburban tree scenes. Sorry to inform you.
Atlanta is greener than Seattle, no matter how you look at it. End of story. I've lived in Seattle for 25 years, and in 3 different places in the eastern US (the closest to Atlanta of which was Charlotte). Heck, I even consider Kansas City to be greener than Seattle. The main part of the year when green-ness counts the most - from about April through September - anywhere in the eastern US is going to be greener than Seattle. It's not even close. Seattle is more like a cooler and somewhat wetter Mediterranean climate than a truly "wet" climate. You don't get this in summer every year with a wet and green climate.
Last edited by JMT; 02-26-2019 at 08:03 PM..
Reason: Removed off-topic comments.
This particular sub-argument started when you said something about Seattle being in the rain shadow in the summer. Which, as I said, is irrelevant - and not just because there's relatively little precipitation to be shadowed in the summer anyway, but also because the climate directly on the coast (west of the mountains) is irrelevant, because Seattle isn't directly on the coast. Me pointing out that the climate of some other spot on the west coast is irrelevant to the climate of Seattle is not a lack of understanding, it's just pointing out that it's irrelevant, which it is.
No, the subargument started when you showed your lack of understanding of the West Coast climate dynamic. Seriously, no one with a straight face would say that the rainforests of Olympia are less green than places on the East Coast. But, that's the silly idea that you've been trying to peddle.
It isn't hard to connect the dots, and see that your lack of understanding of the West Coast will lead to bias in the answers you give regarding this topic of Seattle vs Atlanta.
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Which has nothing to do with what you said, and with what I responded to, but that's besides the point. If the west coast didn't happen to be dominated by conifers, they would have forests more like Chile or Norway, which aren't dominated by super-tall trees.
It follows what you said, pay attention. You're attempting to write off the presence of tall trees on the West Coast to historic happenstance, and I showed that the climate has to have been suitable anyway for those trees to still be thriving.
They aren't that different. In fact, your extreme low temperatures aren't all that different.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue at this point. Are you trying to say extreme temperature swings in the winter preclude Atlanta from being more green? Then how come the Appalachian rain forest - which starts just a little north of Atlanta - exists?
I clearly stated that Atlanta is warmer than Seattle on average. But it's also clear that Atlanta is prone to more severe cold regularly during winter than Seattle is. I don't know about you, but 0F in Seattle vs -9F in Atlanta is quite significant. And if you read through those links I posted, you'll find that in a typical winter, Atlanta will average 48 days of temperatures at the freezing level, compared to only 28 for Seattle.
Yes, the severity of cold in Atlanta truly does a number on the greenery that can grow. Lots of brown winter lawns and deciduous trees occur for this city that's supposed to be subtropical. Same issue with the Appalachian rainforest, lots of brown, bare trees there compared to the West Coast rainforest.
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Those are typical Atlanta (and in general, Southeast) winter suburban tree scenes. Sorry to inform you.
Atlanta is greener than Seattle, no matter how you look at it. End of story. I've lived in Seattle for 25 years, and in 3 different places in the eastern US (the closest to Atlanta of which was Charlotte). Heck, I even consider Kansas City to be greener than Seattle. The main part of the year when green-ness counts the most - from about April through September - anywhere in the eastern US is going to be greener than Seattle. It's not even close. Seattle is more like a cooler and somewhat wetter Mediterranean climate than a truly "wet" climate. You don't get this in summer every year with a wet and green climate.
Nope, Seattle is greener overall, end of story. The sheer brownness that you get during those East Coast winters is far worse than anything you'd see in Seattle any time of year. The fact that you mention Kansas City as "greener" than Seattle shows how off you are with your posts.
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Originally Posted by James Bond 007
Also, this is so obvious it's almost painful, but if somebody is interested in climate averages ...
I'm not sure what's worse, your elementary knowledge of climate/geography, or your feverish attempts in using it to salvage your arguments. It's pretty clear that there are numerous other factors beyond just rainfall totals that go into the greenery of an area: evapotranspiration, severity of winter cold, rainfall frequency, etc.
Last edited by kemahkami; 02-27-2019 at 03:36 AM..
It's nothing short of pathetic that some people here are accusing me of not understanding the climate of the west coast, when I lived there for 25 years.
I note the majority in this poll have voted for Atlanta, and they are right.
^^^ No amount of "experience" or votes will change right from wrong in regards to an argument.
Atlanta is more forested. But Seattle is more evergreen. It's clear that both cities have their strengths in this field, and only those who consider all the details can notice that.
I thought the original question was about forest/tree coverage rather than grass. But if you're judging on grass - yes Seattle definitely has a summer drought and yes the grass goes brown/golden in the summer. Since there is so much other vegetation brush/trees etc. around that doesn't do this I actually like the visual effect.
In terms of variety of trees the city is pretty varied given almost anything will grow and the fact people have planted a large number of the urban trees. There is more presence of firs, spruce, cedars etc. than elsewhere but also tons of chestnuts, maples, oaks, birches, madrones etc. While conifers dominate the mountains, the Puget Sound lowlands natively always had a more varied mix than just Douglas Firs like is often imagined. I'd guess in city its about half and half deciduous/evergreen.
However, on pure canopy coverage Seattle is around 28% which is lower than Atlanta (36%). So Atlanta clearly wins on that metric as well. On top of that I think our canopy is shrinking due to several factors.
1) Healthy trees need a certain amount land for root balls etc. As densities creep over lets say 10k ppsm that tends to become harder to do. We've had a steady number of neighborhoods densify across this threshold. Think - a SFH with some trees on a lot being converted into a apartment that maximizes the land or a group of townhouses that do the same.
2) Even in less dense sections, there has been a parallel trend with the rising land values to take older/smaller SFH homes and replace them with larger boxier version that again maximize living space and decrease vegetation. Think a one story 850 sq ft 1950's home being replaced with a 3000 sq ft cube.
1. Lots of people in Seattle cut down the trees in their yards to preserve views. That rarely, if ever, happens in Atlanta.
2. Lots in Seattle tend to be smaller, and thus, have room for fewer trees. Atlanta tends to have bigger lots and they keep more of the trees on the lots when they build new houses. If you don't believe me, check out both cities on Google maps.
Yes there is a dry season out here in summer but it’s laughable that people here say it looks dead and brown in summer. Sure grass in peoples yards can get brown in summer if you don’t water it but the trees and other plant life certainly don’t and I have plenty of pics from summers out here I can share that shows it. I often go to lakes to swim during summer quite often here and the grass there is green throughout summer. I grew up and lived on the east coast for over 30 years before moving out here. Now the east coast looks dead and brown throughout winter months.
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