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I would LOVE to see someone really live and get around in any of these sunbelt cities without a car. If the city is not walkable/liveable without a car, then I would never look at it. Walkability is a great sign of density, as is public transportation (out to 'burbs as well).
Umm, there are actually a lot of people who get around DFW (well, actually more like Dallas and its suburbs) without a car. Sure almost everybody owns a car, but there are many who almost never use it. I've got some friends around Lovers Lane and Mockingbird (and to an extent, around the SMU area) who get around without a car and just take the DART rail's Red line to where they want to go. Granted, it is much easier to get around without a car in San Francisco and New York without a car, but you make it seem like it is impossible in Dallas.
Also, pretty much everybody in Los Angeles owns a car; that's a city where it is practically impossible to get around without a car. Sure there's plenty of public transportation, but the Californians that I know say that nobody who is middle class and up would be caught dead taking public transportation because of how sketchy it seems.
In regards to Seattle, most people also have cars too. Try getting from Issaquah or Auburn or Renton to downtown Seattle without a car - sure it's possible (like it is from Plano or Garland to downtown Dallas), but few people do it because of how time consuming the process is.
[quote=hairygrapes;3524466]I'm not even from California! I lived in SF Bay Area for a few years, just like I lived in DFW and Atlanta areas also for a few years. I am originally from Portland, Oregon, but have lived/visited numerous other areas in these states. I find it funny that everytime someone dislikes a city in Texas, all the Texans come in and personally attack the person. Really, is that all you have? I have visited Houston on numerous occasions (spending entire summers there usually), and I did not feel like it was a real city (same way I feel about PHX where I am currently), nor did I feel a very diverse/vibrant feel from the city. I would much rather be in an area like SF, NYC or Chicago. Those are true cities with true diversity/density. I am not speaking from the viewpoint of someone who has simply drove by. At least I am not here personally attacking you, saying you have no basis for your opinion. Yes, I am blasting Dallas/Houston, but it's based on the fact that these cities are sprawled out hellholes.[/QU]
You still seem to have no idea what the word diversity means do you? We are trying to educate you, not attack or change your opinion. There is a difference between fact and opinion. An example of a fact would be " Houston is as diverse as any city in the country" because it is backed up by real proof and numbers. An example of an opinion would be " I don't care for Houston or Phoenix" there is no proof to an opinion. The facts are that Houston is as diverse as any city in America the numbers prove it. As to density, no one would say anything about Houston not being dense if they had not annexed the outer areas. You would have a dense city (inner 610 of 800,000 or so in 90 sq miles. That is pretty dense, close to Chicago in fact. If you were to take SF and annex San Mateo County SF would become about 550 sq miles and have the area of Houston. The pop. would be 1.5 million which would be 600,000 less than Houston in the same area, thus SF would be LESS dense than Houston. Same with Seattle, the only difference is that those cities did not annex areas and Houston did, but they all have very dense urban cores. You can thank me later for helping expand your knowledge. Oh by the way, regarding attacking, if you were to make these kinds of statements about any other city in America you would be subjected to the sam kind of reaction, trust me it's not just Texans!
Some people are different. If you feel that way about your city and you know it's all that, more power to you. However, we are all human and we are all different and people take remarks differently than other people. It comes down to respecting someones issues.
Now I'm not insecure about any city. Maybe other Texan posters are (though I think they are justified by your comments on the last few pages), but I'm not. I know Dallas and Houston has it's fault and you have pointed them out and it needs to. I have pointed them out in the Texas forum since I joined so what you're saying will not phase me. But when you make falsehoods about a said city, people will come to correct you such as the diversity issue. I'm sorry, but you visiting a city for however long you stayed is much different than people seeing it everyday in the city they are living in. Houston IS true diversity. it may be spread out because it's a spread out city. But the facts from census back it up. It is one of the most diverse cities in the nation. It's not close to LA or NY, but it is in that 2nd tier with DC, Miami, SF, and Chicago. To say otherwise after what I always saw when I'm down there is laughable.
Now, contrary to your belief, the Texas cities ARE densifying and they ARE adding public transportation in forms of rail. Houston is expanding their rail system and will start construction this summer. Dallas is currently expanding their rail system to DFW and to SE Dallas and they will expand more after these lines are done. They are more than capable of constructing rail lines. The Texas cities want them. However, these are cities. They are different. But these are cities. No matter how much you keep saying real cities, real cities, real cities, Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta ARE real cities. 5-6 million each lives in these three cities. Whether it fits your cup of tea is irrelevant, no offense. But as easily as I can live in Chicago and New York. I can easily live in Houston and Atlanta and live life.
^^ You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about regarding Dallas and Houston whatsoever. Dallas and Houston doesn't have a varied economy? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Do you have any proof to these assertions.
A more vibrant atmosphere? Back this up please. What way do you have in telling us that Atlanta is so much more vibrant.
A distinct local scene? LOL. Isn't that what Houston and Dallas is known for?
Quality of life is better? That is subjective.
What an insult to such great cities of Toronto and Montreal that you basically have to come out and say there is nothing remotely vibrant and interesting about those cities as well.
If you are looking at ethnic diversity then Houston definitely is a clear winner. I used to live in California and though there was a lot of diversity because there were blacks, whites, mexicans, and a few oriental people. Houston really surprised me it is not like other southern cities for instance Atlanta, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, Little Rock, Birmingham, and Mobile that has just have white and black and you think you are in a sea of diversity. Houston is an international city with a huge middle eastern population, black, african, oriental, and hispanic. It is awesome having friends from all different parts of the world not just a couple of white friends, black friends, and mexican friends that were all born in the U.S. Houston is more comparable to a city like New York, Chicago, or Philly with all of its international diversity.
k I'm clearing this up. to my knowledge the city of philly is pretty much black/white and the metro overall too. perhaps more than 80% white in the burbs.
Atlanta, Dallas, Houston - which is most dynamic? Are you shiite-ing me? That's like asking which has the best growth prospects - Buffalo, Pittsburgh, or Detroit?
Hard to measure downtown vibrancy, but I think the cost to park is not a bad way. I paid all of a buck to park in downtown Houston next to Minute Maid Park. There was a bail bondsmen next to the parking lot.
I think Atlanta is underrated imo because it actually has a lot of different areas and attractions, even though they are more locally known rather than world known, that is why someone who isn't familiar with Atlanta may think it's a boring city with nothing to do. If you ever are in Atlanta, check out the following areas:
-Buckhead (like it's own city, nightlife/entertainment district, Atlanta History Center is also there)
-Midtown (a very urban and growing part of Atlanta, also lots of nightlife, Piedmont Park, Arts Center)
-Downtown (Underground, Centennial Park, CNN Center, GA Aquarium, World of Coke, Peachtree Center, lots more)
-Virginia-Highland (trendy area with lots of stores, cafes, bars, restaraunts)
-Little 5 Points (another small town downtown like area with a lot of bars, big goth/punk rock/hippie scene)
-Grant Park (zoo and Cyclorama)
-Historic MLK District
Thats just within the city. The metro area has a lot to do as well, such as Stone Mountain, Six Flags, Chattahoochee River, about 2 hours to the mountains, 4 hours to Savannah and the beach. May not be close like California where you have beaches and mountains within 30 min, but its not too shabby either.
Dallas and Houston are too spread out to be enjoyable. The area isn't spectacular. The atmosphere is suburban/small town. You can step into Atlanta and feel the scene at the tip of your fingers. You need a car to get around Houston or Dallas. When you need a car to get to so many places then the atmosphere is diminished significantly. Walking around a city and encountering great scenery on foot is better than driving.
Honestly, I didn't find either of those Texas cities boring but many people who have been there did. Come on, these suburban cities are seriously overhyped. Yes, I tried out the club scene in both places. *yawn*. I just found myself going to the movie theaters day in, day out. How is that dynamic? Seriously, Dallas and Houston have nothing real to offer.
Downtown Dallas has some of the best party/club scenes and I always walked around downtown- downtown Fort Worth too. You said it was a "small town" but that you had to have a car to drive everywhere. That small, eh? Hmmmmmm...if you spent your days and nights watching movies instead of getting out and doing things, then it's your own fault for not knowing what there is to do in Dallas. And sure, you can "feel the scene at your fingertips" in Atlanta...that's because you are being begged for money at every freakin corner while you're walking around *trying to* enjoy the area. Atleast in Texas you get the southern hospitality.
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