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The bolded parts is the point everyone nominating NJ is trying to make. California is 30.1% Mexican, which is an extremely large amount and this does not even include the millions of illegal Mexicans. The next three ethnicities are German at 9.9%, Irish at 7.8 % and English at 7.0% all of which are under 10% of the population. On top of the 30.1% Mexican population the illegal Mexicans are not included, which goes in the millions. The facts are right there that you posted.
Now, on the other hand let's take a look at NJ. The highest ethnicity in NJ is of only 17.9%. This is 12.2% less than the highest percentage of ethnicity represented by California. Also, the next three ethnicities for NJ are Irish at 16.1%, Germans at 12.6% and African American at 11.4%. As you can see NJ has three others ethnicities over 10%, California only has one.
How anyone can deny California is not dominated by Mexicans? The prove is in your facts posted.
A few things:
1) yes, Mexicans are by FAR and away the largest ancestry in California, but it's not like Mexico is some monolithic country with the same culture from Tijuana to Yucatan. You do know that there are PLENTY of Mexican Indios, who probably make up the bulk of "illegals" nowadays, who barely speak Spanish, never mind English. And really, how do YOU know how many illegals there are? how do YOU know they are all from Mexico (South of the border includes PLENTY of Central American and South American countries that aren't Mexico...)? There aren't really any hard numbers, aside from conjecture.
2) As Montclair alluded to, how well connected are the European groups (Italians, Irish, Germans, etc.) in EITHER CA or NJ/NY to their ancestral country? In other words, how many of them are just Americans who box-checked their ancestry?
3) Logically speaking, you can fit more ethnic groups amongst 24.5% of a population (100-75.5 = 24.5%) than either 23.2% (for NYS), or 16.1% (for NJ). That's what the "top 10 ancestry" list was for, since its obviously impossible to list the percentage of every single ethnic group without it being statistically flawed. The huge ethnic groups are covered since its unlikely that a large enough group can come up and really displace the ranking after the 10th largest group since their proportion of the population would be decreasing as more and more groups are added by size.
Last edited by Lifeshadower; 07-19-2011 at 12:30 AM..
The huge difference imHo is that the vast majority of Italians, Germans and Irish in New Jersey and elsewhere in the United States is no longer tied to their ancestral homeland or are only anecdotally tied to their ethnic background.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a
California is definitely the most diverse state because of the sheer volume of ethnic groups and its cities seem more integrated. One difference is that immigrants seem to assimilate much quicker in CA. On The East Coast it seems that there are more defined ethnic neighborhoods and thus more noticeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nowincal11
The best part is the NY/NJ people live in some of the most segregated areas. Darien, Connecticut. Westchester County, NY. Notice that really no one from NYC itself or the urban New Jersey suburbs have posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nowincal11
California has the 2nd largest Jewish population in the US, the largest Persian population, and the largest Armenian population.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
It should be pointed out that quite a few of the Italians in NJ are still quite Italian--as in they've held on to their language, cultures, and customs. Also, NJ has the second largest, by percentage, population of Arab Americans of all the states--who are also counted as White in the census.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
If we're talking about percentages and distribution, then NJ. A funny thing is that a lot of the white population in a lot of the NJ 'burbs seem keen on preserving the culture from the old world, and have the mass and density to keep it up (at least temporarily).
If we're talking about raw numbers or asking about specific areas that are the most diverse then it'd go to California's big metros and NYC.
I usually agree with you on things Monclair, but here I have to admit I disagree. Basically what you said about New Jersey is the exact opposite and what I actually feel about many Californians, they have lost much of their ethnic culture. Particually the whites.
Why? Well read what 2e1m5a and nowincal said. So people are more integrated in California, which normally is mostly a good thing but it does have one drawback. Younger people may be less likely to keep their own ethnic idenity and instead totally adopt the dominant American culture.
Consider the following, Hollywood is in California and California has the 2nd largest Jewish population (thanks nowincal). But when Hollywood wants to make a movie or TV show about Jews --- where do they normally base it? In New York City.
Italians? New Jersey, NYC, Long Island, Philadelphia, Chicago. The Irish? Boston. French? Louisana. You get the drift.
Finally, I agree what Oycrumbler said about Italians in New Jersey and I would carry it over to the New York side. Quite a bit of younger Italians still speak the language for instance.
And? California should have the most for lots of ethnicities, religions, etc. The last time I checked California was the largest state by population of all 50.
According to wikipedia NJ has.....
* Second highest Jewish population after NY
* Second largest Muslim population after Michigan
* Largest Costa Rican population in the United States
* Second highest Cuban population outside of Miami
* Third highest Asian population by %
* Third highest Italian population
* Third highest Indian pop by raw numbers (NJ is small w/ only 8.8 M ppl)
* Third largest Korean population
* Fourth largest Filipino population
* Fourth largest Chinese population
As everyone can see from above NJ has TEN different groups represented above that place within the top 4 in this country. I have not even started to post facts on the the Dominican and Puerto Rican numbers, which I am sure is a lot. Alright, I'm done with this thread now. I just wanted to post some facts about Jersey.
Ok, I just want to know something:
1) Where are the NUMBERS saying that NJ has the 2nd highest Jewish population after NY? California has it in raw numbers, maybe you mean percentage? Source? (Wikipedia is NOT a source)
2) Again, where are the NUMBERS proving this?
Yeah, the census doesn't ask about religious affiliation. So it's kind of hard proving 1 and 2 either way
(Now all from United States - Data Sets - American FactFinder) and http://factfinder2.census.gov/main.html
3) Florida's Costa Rican outnumbers New Jersey's by a few hundred (19,498 vs. 17,898) but as a % of the population, yeah NJ's is higher
4) Yes, it's the 3rd highest at 8%.....behind California at 13% and Hawaii at 38%. You understand that it's MUCH more difficult to reach 13% of a population when there are 37 million people than it is to get 8% at 8 million people. The numbers are what they are
5) No dispute there, but how many are Italian Americans who've been here a LONG time? Why does NJ/NY ethnic whites get a pass when California's doesn't? Anecdotes are great, but yeah, where's the numerical evidence to back this up (the "Italianess" or "Irishness" of NJ Whites as opposed to CA's)
6) No argument there. In fact, if things continue on the path they are on now, it could reach 2nd by mid-decade, and has a WAY higher % than NY or CA (2.9% of the population is Indian, as opposed to 1.6% for NY and 1.4% for CA). However, CA's Indian population grew way faster than either NY's and NJ's combined (grew by 214k in CA from 2000-2010 from 314k to 528k, as opposed to NYS 62k growth and NJ's 123k growth for a combined total of 185k). If trends continue, CA's Indian population will probably dwarf that of combined NY/NJ by the middle part of this decade.
7) No dispute there either, but you do know that there's a HUGE gap between the #1 (CA at 451,892) and #2 (NY at 140,994) and #3 (NJ at 93,679). In case you want to bring percentages up, CA's Koreans make up a larger percentage of the population than NJ's Koreans (1.3% vs. 1.1%) Small difference, but again, California is also a MUCH larger state.
8) No dispute again either, but again, a HUGE gap not only in raw numbers (CA has 1,195,180 vs. NJ's 110,650) but also in % (3.2% of the population in CA, 1.3% in NJ). FYI: I am Filipino..and really, there isn't much of a contest here.
9) No dispute on raw numbers, but again, a HUGE gap in not only raw numbers (CA has 1,253,102 Chinese vs NJ's 134,442) but also a HUGE gap in percentage (3.4% of the population in CA, 1.5% in NJ). In fact, this is where NYS actually does better vs. CA (576k, and 3.0% of NYS population)
I usually agree with you on things Monclair, but here I have to admit I disagree. Basically what you said about New Jersey is the exact opposite and what I actually feel about many Californians, they have lost much of their ethnic culture. Particually the whites.
Why? Well read what 2e1m5a and nowincal said. So people are more integrated in California, which normally is mostly a good thing but it does have one drawback. Younger people may be less likely to keep their own ethnic idenity and instead totally adopt the dominant American culture.
Consider the following, Hollywood is in California and California has the 2nd largest Jewish population (thanks nowincal). But when Hollywood wants to make a movie or TV show about Jews --- where do they normally base it? In New York City.
Italians? New Jersey, NYC, Long Island, Philadelphia, Chicago. The Irish? Boston. French? Louisana. You get the drift.
That's pretty anecdotal. The Irish and Italians everywhere seem to have a lot of pride for their heritage no matter where they go... California included. I've met plenty of white people here who have talked fondly about their ethnic heritage, whether it's German, Irish, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Norwegian, etc. I also knew plenty of people back in MA who couldn't be bothered to care what their ethnic heritage was and said they were "from Boston;" usually either white or black people.
Ok, I just want to know something:
1) Where are the NUMBERS saying that NJ has the 2nd highest Jewish population after NY? California has it in raw numbers, maybe you mean percentage? Source? (Wikipedia is NOT a source)
2) Again, where are the NUMBERS proving this?
Yeah, the census doesn't ask about religious affiliation. So it's kind of hard proving 1 and 2 either way
(Now all from United States - Data Sets - American FactFinder) and American FactFinder
3) Florida's Costa Rican outnumbers New Jersey's by a few hundred (19,498 vs. 17,898) but as a % of the population, yeah NJ's is higher
4) Yes, it's the 3rd highest at 8%.....behind California at 13% and Hawaii at 38%. You understand that it's MUCH more difficult to reach 13% of a population when there are 37 million people than it is to get 8% at 8 million people. The numbers are what they are
5) No dispute there, but how many are Italian Americans who've been here a LONG time? Why does NJ/NY ethnic whites get a pass when California's doesn't? Anecdotes are great, but yeah, where's the numerical evidence to back this up (the "Italianess" or "Irishness" of NJ Whites as opposed to CA's)
6) No argument there. In fact, if things continue on the path they are on now, it could reach 2nd by mid-decade, and has a WAY higher % than NY or CA (2.9% of the population is Indian, as opposed to 1.6% for NY and 1.4% for CA). However, CA's Indian population grew way faster than either NY's and NJ's combined (grew by 214k in CA from 2000-2010 from 314k to 528k, as opposed to NYS 62k growth and NJ's 123k growth for a combined total of 185k). If trends continue, CA's Indian population will probably dwarf that of combined NY/NJ by the middle part of this decade.
7) No dispute there either, but you do know that there's a HUGE gap between the #1 (CA at 451,892) and #2 (NY at 140,994) and #3 (NJ at 93,679). In case you want to bring percentages up, CA's Koreans make up a larger percentage of the population than NJ's Koreans (1.3% vs. 1.1%) Small difference, but again, California is also a MUCH larger state.
8) No dispute again either, but again, a HUGE gap not only in raw numbers (CA has 1,195,180 vs. NJ's 110,650) but also in % (3.2% of the population in CA, 1.3% in NJ). FYI: I am Filipino..and really, there isn't much of a contest here.
9) No dispute on raw numbers, but again, a HUGE gap in not only raw numbers (CA has 1,253,102 Chinese vs NJ's 134,442) but also a HUGE gap in percentage (3.4% of the population in CA, 1.5% in NJ). In fact, this is where NYS actually does better vs. CA (576k, and 3.0% of NYS population)
Disagree with regard to California's Indian population dwarfing that of New York/New Jersey. A perusal of INS Annual immigration numbers will clarify that a lot more Indians are still coming to NY/NJ than California in both raw numbers and as a percentage. Furthermore, the 2000-2010 boom in the bay area can be mostly attributed to H1 visas being issued to many indians to work in Silicon Valley. A huge number of these recipients are transient and most eventually return to India. So, other than that minor point, I agree with everything else you stated in your post. Cheers.
Disagree with regard to California's Indian population dwarfing that of New York/New Jersey. A perusal of INS Annual immigration numbers will clarify that a lot more Indians are still coming to NY/NJ than California in both raw numbers and as a percentage. Furthermore, the 2000-2010 boom in the bay area can be mostly attributed to H1 visas being issued to many indians to work in Silicon Valley. A huge number of these recipients are transient and most eventually return to India. So, other than that minor point, I agree with everything else you stated in your post. Cheers.
Country of Birth: India
2010: California (15,099); New Jersey (8,123)/New York (5,116) =13,329
2009: California (12,826); New Jersey (7,080)/New York (4,410) =11,490
2008: California (14,112); New Jersey (8,083)/New York (5,561) =13,644
2007: California (12,820); New Jersey (7,477)/New York (5,371) = 12,848
2006: California (14,110); New Jersey (6,491)/New York (6,691) =13,182
2005: California (14,724); New Jersey (9,624)/New York (6,693) = 16,317
2004: California (16,703); New Jersey (7,786)/New York (4,872) = 12,658
2003: California (9,508); New Jersey (7,442)/New York (4,138) = 11,508
Asian Indians: 2010
California: 528,176
New Jersey: 292,256
New York: 313,620
NY/NJ Total: 605,872
Growth 2000-2010
California: +213,357 (+67%)
New Jersey: +123,076 (+72%)
New York: +61,896 (+25%)
NY/NJ Growth: +184,972 (+44%)
Apparently, not a huge enough % return to India because in addition to the foreign born statistic, there's a huge contingent of Indians who lived elsewhere in the US who is moving to California and staying here (well, not really the LA area, but probably the Bay Area or elsewhere in NorCal)
Since 2007 though, NY/NJ (and in 2009/2010, NY alone) has been getting more Chinese from the People's Republic of China by raw number AND by % than California has. It will be interesting to see how long that will last.
^ Okay, fair enough. I actually was thinking "South Asian" as a catch all - if you factor in Pakistani and Bangladeshi population/immigration, NY/NJ is a much larger draw for South Asian population overall. However, I concede, Cali is playing catch up vis a vis the Indian population.
^ Okay, fair enough. I actually was thinking "South Asian" as a catch all - if you factor in Pakistani and Bangladeshi population/immigration, NY/NJ is a much larger draw for South Asian population overall. However, I concede, Cali is playing catch up vis a vis the Indian population.
No problem man In fact, its sort of weird, but CA switched places with NJ/NY for a 'traditionally' California Asian group, Chinese (from PRC only, not including Taiwan and HK) for a 'traditionally' Northeastern group, Indians. However, as others will point out really quickly, South Asians are to the Northeast (and increasingly, the South) as East Asians are to the West Coast.
However, Indians are probably one of the MOST dispersed groups in the country (31% live in the Northeast, 27% live in the South, 18% live in the Midwest, 23% live in the West) while Chinese are probably one of the LEAST (33% of all ethnic Chinese in the US live in California, while another 14% live in the rest of the West [nearly half of all Chinese in the US live in the West], as opposed to 30% in the Northeast, 15% in the South, 9% in the Midwest)
Country of Birth: China (People's Republic of China, no Taiwan or HK)
2010: California (18,680): New York (18,859)/New Jersey (2,253) = 21,112
2009: California (17,139): New York (19,921)/New Jersey (2,271) = 22,192
2008: California (21,925): New York (23,981)/New Jersey (2,631) = 26,612
2007: California (22,824): New York (20,317)/New Jersey (2,394) = 22,711
2006: California (27,305); New York (23,891)/New Jersey (2,539) = 26,430
2005: California (17,668); New York (14,505)/New Jersey (2,539) = 17,044
2004: California (16,950); New York (9,262)/ New Jersey (2,023) = 11,255
2003: California (11,573); New York (8,356)/New Jersey (1,688) = 10,044
7 year growth: California 154,164; NY 139,092/NJ 18,839 = NY/NJ 157,931
I usually agree with you on things Monclair, but here I have to admit I disagree. Basically what you said about New Jersey is the exact opposite and what I actually feel about many Californians, they have lost much of their ethnic culture. Particually the whites.
Im not saying that some dont have ties to where their parents and grandparents come from, but I believe the vast majority don't because they have totally assimilated into the fabric of American culture and I think that is the direction that all groups should take because it makes us more unified as a nation.
Although there are some pangs of sadness for someone like me whose parents immigrated to the US about 40 years ago and I have very close ties to where they came from since I basically grew up in that culture just as much as I grew up here, speak the language with total fluency, observe most of the traditions and was brought up with their values, am familiar with the social protocol, eat and prepare the food quite well, have property and a house down there and visit quite frequenty, have tons of relatives there with whom I maintain close contact. Its a little sad for someone like me to witness my neices and nephews not know the language or any of the other important aspects of their culture but I understand that in order for them to achieve things that their grandparents and ancestors never dreamed of by being American, there are some things of their past that they will never fully experience.
Nope, I did not miss the groups you have "more" of. This is the point everyone is trying to make. Having more of a couple of ethnicities makes your state less diverse, not more. A state having 30% of any ethnicity hurts diversity.
The bolded parts is the point everyone nominating NJ is trying to make. California is 30.1% Mexican, which is an extremely large amount and this does not even include the millions of illegal Mexicans. The next three ethnicities are German at 9.9%, Irish at 7.8 % and English at 7.0% all of which are under 10% of the population. On top of the 30.1% Mexican population the illegal Mexicans are not included, which goes in the millions. The facts are right there that you posted.
Now, on the other hand let's take a look at NJ. The highest ethnicity in NJ is of only 17.9%. This is 12.2% less than the highest percentage of ethnicity represented by California. Also, the next three ethnicities for NJ are Irish at 16.1%, Germans at 12.6% and African American at 11.4%. As you can see NJ has three others ethnicities over 10%, California only has one.
How anyone can deny California is not dominated by Mexicans? The prove is in your facts posted.
And? California should have the most for lots of ethnicities, religions, etc. The last time I checked California was the largest state by population of all 50.
According to wikipedia NJ has.....
* Second highest Jewish population after NY
* Second largest Muslim population after Michigan
* Largest Costa Rican population in the United States
* Second highest Cuban population outside of Miami
* Third highest Asian population by %
* Third highest Italian population
* Third highest Indian pop by raw numbers (NJ is small w/ only 8.8 M ppl)
* Third largest Korean population
* Fourth largest Filipino population
* Fourth largest Chinese population
As everyone can see from above NJ has TEN different groups represented above that place within the top 4 in this country. I have not even started to post facts on the the Dominican and Puerto Rican numbers, which I am sure is a lot. Alright, I'm done with this thread now. I just wanted to post some facts about Jersey.
seriously. people are severely underestimating new jersey and new york on this forum.
cali is dominated by mexicans. cant u ppl understand that 30 is a much larger number than 17? plus all the illegals. i woudlnt be surprised if cali was more than 70-80% mexican, with 20% legal citizens living there. last time i was there, all i saw were a bunch of mexicans and some whites.
hahaha. maybe cali is barely beating ny/nj in terms of indians, but we are so far ahead to begin with that it will take years to beat us (not even counting other south asians), however we are now beginning to dominate chinese people. we will probably gonna overtake cali's chinese population real soon given that all non-mexicans are leaving cali real quick. no numbers can change the fact that whites, blacks, asians are leaving cali.
then think about how many carribean people we have here that doesnt even exist in cali. plus the fact that all these groups are next to each other, living in harmony with one another.
this one is a lock for ny then nj (can switch order)
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In fact, its sort of weird, but CA switched places with NJ/NY for a 'traditionally' California Asian group, Chinese (from PRC only, not including Taiwan and HK) for a 'traditionally' Northeastern group, Indians. However, as others will point out really quickly, South Asians are to the Northeast (and increasingly, the South) as East Asians are to the West Coast. 