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I apologize to everyone for such large posts immediately following each other because it looks like we're fighting. The purpose of my last post was to agree on some things and agree to disagree on the others. This post serves that same purpose plus I didn't expect so much back from you when I had actually said really good things about Houston. I do appreciate the debate
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Originally Posted by Scarface713
No, driving through Atlanta vs Dallas and especially Houston are not the same. Atlanta's roadways make it seem smaller and Dallas, but especially Houston are littered with skylines throughout the city. Houston has at least three business districts that are all larger than Downtown Orlando, with one feeing like a city within a city (Texas Medical Center).
True of Atlanta, their roadways are shielded to a degree by trees. However, I don't understand why you went on to tell me what I had already stated about your multiple skylines, we got that part.
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Originally Posted by Scarface713
Rail is expanding in both cities right now as we speak. May not be like Chicago or NYC (not many cities are), but the rail is growing as these cities grow.
Yeah yeah I know DART is going to be at LOVE, well since I often work in Plano or Fort Worth so what.
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Originally Posted by Scarface713
Well, the skylines are there, but the Downtown areas aren't (yet). Both Houston and Dallasl downtown activity and overall look are nothing like they were even five years ago. If the last time you were walking through both was ten years ago, you wouldn't recognize them today.
No, their skylines are not there if you we're referring to Chicago, New York, San Francisco, etc. I agreed with you about a lot of things but that is laughable.
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Originally Posted by Scarface713
Greater leisure market, but only because of the theme parks and the tourists that go to them. There is no shortage of leisure in Houston (beaches, bays, lakes, prairies, pine forests and hills all in the metro area). And quality of life is definitely up for debate. In Houston, you can make much mess, but have much more (house, etc.), than in Orlando because Orlando's cost of living is high. If money is not an issue, then Orlando is fine, but obviously it is an issue. It's a reason why Orlando was hit much harder than Houston this recession.
You have fallen in the trap of using the argument that "without/besides the theme parks...". Since you even used this argument it makes me think you haven't been here in awhile or ever. No wait I've got it, you ignored the city of Orlando, some of it's great suburbs and stayed in the attractions area like I-Drive & Disney. That's why you seem to have no clue about what there is to do in and around Orlando. Oh and I'd rather have less house for more $$ on Lake Brantley, or the Butler Chain of Lakes (google earth them), and be able to go boating in my suburban back yard than more house for less money in an overcrowded Houston neighborhood. See down here boating/wakeboarding is not a day trip, we do it for a couple hours here and there like people go to the mall in Dallas. We were hit harder during the recession, thanks for pointing it out I guess.
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Originally Posted by Scarface713
San Antonio has a problem with retaining highly educated workers and college graduates. They head to Houston, Dallas, and Austin instead. Does Orlando have a similar problem? SA is a nice city and it's where Texas goes to play, but they're economy is centered around tourism/service industry more than anything else. It's a reason why AT&T moved from there to Dallas a few years ago. And love to be able to go to Sea World than an aquarium? Okay.... That's not even true at all. Who substitutes Sea World for an aquarium? That's like substituting the Animal Kingdom for a real zoo. The price of admission difference is huge.
The only thing I'm going to say about the Sea World and Animal Kingdom comments is that you're stupid if you believe what you said. Sea World costs $60 odd bucks for the entire year, what does a membership cost to a real aquarium?? For that $60 I get concerts, shows with whales-not fish only, roller coasters, and many other educational exhibits that top many aquariums. Oh and if I want to spring for it I'll go swimming with the dolphins at Discovery Cove. Animal Kingdom has more exotic animals than you probably realize. They are not confined with cages or bars and they take you on a fun safari to see them. It's a blending of Disney entertainment magic and actual zoology. Oh and cost, again if you lived here you'd know that you never pay to go to Disney. See living here you have enough friends and family that work for Disney to get you and your guests in on any given day totally free. Have fun staring into the glass at your aquarium or peering through bars at the zoo, I'll be at Sea World riding Manta, watching great whale/dolphin shows, and grabbing a concert during Viva La Musica.
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Originally Posted by Scarface713
And you said in the other Texas vs Florida thread that Houston's Theater and Museum districts don't equal culture or aren't cultural amenities. Care to explain that?
They are great, very refined and all. Not my cup of tea. Culture is based on people and their overall attitude towards life in the area. We have a fun in the sun culture, you have a museum and business one. Culture is more than museums and performing arts. Houston has culture that is not based on these things either.
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Originally Posted by Scarface713
No. For one, the areas around Houston have been voting red, for the most part, since Nixon. Clinton was an obvious exception though. Plus, you need to go look at how broad the energy industry is. There are so many components to it, that oil is just one part of it. Obama is about to make a "Green Bubble" (like Clinton's Tech Bubble and Bush's Housing Bubble). Houston is going to benefit greatly from it. The energy companies down here are diversifying. Houston is the largest purchaser of green power in the country. "Green" companies like Vestas are opening up new offices down here for alternate energy research.
You missed my entire point that RED doesn't equal redneck, no class, close-minded. BLUE doesn't equal open-minded, full of diversity, cosmopolitan. Our biggest issue in this country is that we see the divide so black and white and vote accordingly. Congrats that Houston is going green, just be careful what you wish for when gas hits the European like prices and people fight back against the newly diversified oil/energy companies.
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Originally Posted by Scarface713
And energy is just one part of Houston's economy and is less than half of Houston's overall economy (compared to 80% in the 80s bust). There is still the Port of Houston, Texas Medical Center, NASA, fast growing IT/tech industry, and tourism is going to come in strong when Earth Quest Adventures is built (with the help of an ex-Disney Imagineer and creator of the Jurassic Park dinosaurs). Especially if Universal comes in and stamps their name on the project (was a rumor). We're doing good down here.
Okay thanks for the lesson. Our economy just like yours is trying to diversify. Instead of listing how, I'll let you look that one up. Congrats on getting an attraction like Earth Quest Adventures, that one step in the right direction for a town too centered around business. Man, you'd think by the way you talk about these oil, I'm sorry energy companies, that there are ferris wheels, cotton candy, and roller coasters in the lobbies of all those high rises in downtown Houston. Get out and have some fun, rate a city on what matters to you. I love having a mix of business and fun. We have one fortune 500 so if I want, I could work there. Oh wait I did...
I apologize to everyone for such large posts immediately following each other because it looks like we're fighting. The purpose of my last post was to agree on some things and agree to disagree on the others. This post serves that same purpose plus I didn't expect so much back from you when I had actually said really good things about Houston. I do appreciate the debate
Wouldn't call it a debate when you start hurling immature insults.
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Yeah yeah I know DART is going to be at LOVE, well since I often work in Plano or Fort Worth so what.
What? DART is in Plano, and Fort Worth is connected to DART by the TRE. Not sure what you're trying to say here.
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No, their skylines are not there if you we're referring to Chicago, New York, San Francisco, etc. I agreed with you about a lot of things but that is laughable.
NYC and Chicago? No. San Francisco? Yes. Houston has a massive skyline. Especially when you can get the entire Inner Loop skyline together.
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You have fallen in the trap of using the argument that "without/besides the theme parks...". Since you even used this argument it makes me think you haven't been here in awhile or ever. No wait I've got it, you ignored the city of Orlando, some of it's great suburbs and stayed in the attractions area like I-Drive & Disney. That's why you seem to have no clue about what there is to do in and around Orlando. Oh and I'd rather have less house for more $$ on Lake Brantley, or the Butler Chain of Lakes (google earth them), and be able to go boating in my suburban back yard than more house for less money in an overcrowded Houston neighborhood. See down here boating/wakeboarding is not a day trip, we do it for a couple hours here and there like people go to the mall in Dallas. We were hit harder during the recession, thanks for pointing it out I guess.
Wait, so you're trying to tell me that Orlando would be as large of a leisure destination without the gift of those theme parks? Seriously? And you obviously haven't seen the lake houses nestled in the pine forests around Lake Houston, or the forests/rolling terrain near Lake Conroe. Hell, have you seen the houses around Clear Lake near NASA? See, down here, boating isn't a day trip either, it just depends on where in the Houston metro area you live in. And hit harder because of the inflated housing and weaker job market.
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The only thing I'm going to say about the Sea World and Animal Kingdom comments is that you're stupid if you believe what you said. Sea World costs $60 odd bucks for the entire year, what does a membership cost to a real aquarium?? For that $60 I get concerts, shows with whales-not fish only, roller coasters, and many other educational exhibits that top many aquariums. Oh and if I want to spring for it I'll go swimming with the dolphins at Discovery Cove. Animal Kingdom has more exotic animals than you probably realize. They are not confined with cages or bars and they take you on a fun safari to see them. It's a blending of Disney entertainment magic and actual zoology. Oh and cost, again if you lived here you'd know that you never pay to go to Disney. See living here you have enough friends and family that work for Disney to get you and your guests in on any given day totally free. Have fun staring into the glass at your aquarium or peering through bars at the zoo, I'll be at Sea World riding Manta, watching great whale/dolphin shows, and grabbing a concert during Viva La Musica.
Wow, really? Go look up the difference in price for the Animal Kingdom and zoos throughout major American cities. And I highly doubt people get into Disney for free like you say. Every once in a while yes, but not on a normal, everyday basis. And for the record, I've been to the Animal Kingdom plenty of times to know what animals are there. And what you describe for Sea World is really not that great. If you really want to substitute Sea World for a real aquarium, then that's you. In reality, it's a theme park. Oh, and Earth Quest will have all of what you described.
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They are great, very refined and all. Not my cup of tea. Culture is based on people and their overall attitude towards life in the area. We have a fun in the sun culture, you have a museum and business one. Culture is more than museums and performing arts. Houston has culture that is not based on these things either.
Houston has a business and museum culture? Yes, but it also has a live and let live culture. Do what you want to do. We have plenty of things to do in the outdoors, in addition to what I already mentioned. You act like Orlando is unique with that. The only thing unique with Orlando is the amount of theme parks in one area.
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You missed my entire point that RED doesn't equal redneck, no class, close-minded. BLUE doesn't equal open-minded, full of diversity, cosmopolitan. Our biggest issue in this country is that we see the divide so black and white and vote accordingly.
I didn't mis any point. Just stating fact. Now, it looks like that's what you actually meant, since you've now said it. Houston is a great mixture of both and the "live and let live" thing holds even more true. Especially when you look at our current mayor and who elected her. As long as your politics and platform are straight, you can be purple and get elected down here.
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Congrats that Houston is going green, just be careful what you wish for when gas hits the European like prices and people fight back against the newly diversified oil/energy companies.
Be careful what I wish for? What are you talking about?
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Okay thanks for the lesson. Our economy just like yours is trying to diversify. Instead of listing how, I'll let you look that one up. Congrats on getting an attraction like Earth Quest Adventures, that one step in the right direction for a town too centered around business. Man, you'd think by the way you talk about these oil, I'm sorry energy companies, that there are ferris wheels, cotton candy, and roller coasters in the lobbies of all those high rises in downtown Houston. Get out and have some fun, rate a city on what matters to you. I love having a mix of business and fun. We have one fortune 500 so if I want, I could work there. Oh wait I did...
No problem on teaching you a lesson. And I already know what Orlando is trying to do, so no need to look that one up. And what do you mean "oil, I'm sorry energy companies"? Shows how much you know about them. And all I said was that they are diversifying. Don't know where cotton candy and roller coasters come into play, but it shows your immaturity.
And there you go again with the "get out and have some fun". We have plenty of fun down here in Texas. Without having to rely on theme parks for that.
Wouldn't call it a debate when you start hurling immature insults. What immature insult have I thrown at you? Quote me! What's insulting is you accusing me of being anything but level headed about this.
What? DART is in Plano, and Fort Worth is connected to DART by the TRE. Not sure what you're trying to say here.I like to work on Sundays, will the TRE help me then? I was basically trying to say how inconvenient the trains are there compared with other systems. My time is my money, so I'll just rent a car or take a cab.
NYC and Chicago? No. San Francisco? Yes. Houston has a massive skyline. Especially when you can get the entire Inner Loop skyline together. San Fransisco?? Please give us all a break. Your skylines are great but not nearly as dense as San Fran.
Wait, so you're trying to tell me that Orlando would be as large of a leisure destination without the gift of those theme parks? Seriously? And you obviously haven't seen the lake houses nestled in the pine forests around Lake Houston, or the forests/rolling terrain near Lake Conroe. Hell, have you seen the houses around Clear Lake near NASA? See, down here, boating isn't a day trip either, it just depends on where in the Houston metro area you live in. And hit harder because of the inflated housing and weaker job market.No, not without the parks. What I'm saying is that we DO have theme parks, some of the best in the world, so that has to be factored into the debate. Also our lakes are everywhere, in the city and suburbs, so in my opinion I like that better than Houston which is not like that. It's like you think I'm saying Houston has no lakes, all I'm saying is we have way more and they are everywhere. I wanted you to Google Earth them so you could see how many people live on a lake in the Orlando metro not just some.
Wow, really? Go look up the difference in price for the Animal Kingdom and zoos throughout major American cities. And I highly doubt people get into Disney for free like you say. Every once in a while yes, but not on a normal, everyday basis. And for the record, I've been to the Animal Kingdom plenty of times to know what animals are there. And what you describe for Sea World is really not that great. If you really want to substitute Sea World for a real aquarium, then that's you. In reality, it's a theme park. Oh, and Earth Quest will have all of what you described.How would you have any idea how ofter I get into Disney free?? Or for anyone else, I use my friendships, family and networking. And who would go everyday to either Disney or an aquarium? I'm glad about Earth Quest, I think that's a great first step.
Houston has a business and museum culture? Yes, but it also has a live and let live culture. Do what you want to do. We have plenty of things to do in the outdoors, in addition to what I already mentioned. You act like Orlando is unique with that. The only thing unique with Orlando is the amount of theme parks in one area. I know that you have more than a business and museum culture in Houston. I actually said Houston has culture outside of those things typically defined as culture. When did I ever suggest that Orlando is unique about having outdoorsy things to do? All I said was fun in the sun, if you have that too then great.
I didn't mis any point. Just stating fact. Now, it looks like that's what you actually meant, since you've now said it. Houston is a great mixture of both and the "live and let live" thing holds even more true. Especially when you look at our current mayor and who elected her. As long as your politics and platform are straight, you can be purple and get elected down here. I never thought anything different of Houston. I heard about the gay mayor too, sounds good if she governs well.
Be careful what I wish for? What are you talking about?Never mind, I do not care to discuss politics any further. I did, but not anymore. This is way to heated of a thread to go any further with that.
No problem on teaching you a lesson.(It was sarcasm, you didn't) And I already know what Orlando is trying to do, so no need to look that one up. And what do you mean "oil, I'm sorry energy companies"? (Why does it matter what I meant, just take it at face value)Shows how much you know about them. And all I said was that they are diversifying. Don't know where cotton candy and roller coasters come into play, but it shows your immaturity. Relax, I was making a point about how you are reping the fact that you have tons of buildings in the skyline and tons of fortune 500's, and trying to juxtaposition that against my preference for amusement parks. Basically, I'd rather have a roller coaster skyline like Cedar Point because I consider that better.
And there you go again with the "get out and have some fun". We have plenty of fun down here in Texas. Without having to rely on theme parks for that. Trust me, I will never suggest that to you again.
I've actually tried to be pretty nice about Houston while staying true to my opinion and personal experience there. Didn't know it would get so personal. I'm good after this post. Have a nice week.
Thank you. Insulting as in calling me stupid if I don't agree with what you're saying about freaking Sea World. I've had debates on here before, but none like with you, where you are so quick to degrade a poster. Be more like your fellow Floridian GLS2010.
I'll quote you and show you why I said what I said:
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San Antonio has a problem with retaining highly educated workers and college graduates. They head to Houston, Dallas, and Austin instead. Does Orlando have a similar problem? SA is a nice city and it's where Texas goes to play, but they're economy is centered around tourism/service industry more than anything else. It's a reason why AT&T moved from there to Dallas a few years ago. And love to be able to go to Sea World than an aquarium? Okay.... That's not even true at all. Who substitutes Sea World for an aquarium? That's like substituting the Animal Kingdom for a real zoo. The price of admission difference is huge.
Not going to get into the insulting nature of your first sentences regarding the lack of education in SA and ORL. But you really are stupid if you believe that Sea World is not a good substitute for an aquarium or that Animal Kingdom is not a zoo. A place where you keep certain types of animals is what it is. What was insulting is how you said "who substitutes Sea World for..." which made me feel that you were suggesting that there's something wrong with doing so. Hey if Animal Kingdom wasn't a zoo, then Disney wouldn't have to try to market it a "Nat-A-zu." Disney understood that people would stay away if they thought it was only a zoo, therefore they disguise their theme park zoo as a non-zoo.
I'm sorry I'm not like GLS, he's nice. It's also very insulting for you to tell me how I should act. I am sorry to have offended you with my strong opinion, you seem to have very strong opinions as well. Good luck in Houston sir.
What did I say insulting about Orlando and SA? Especially if what I said is a fact? Most SA residents already know this and there have been plenty of articles/reports on it. I merely asked if the same was true with Orlando, because of the theme parks. And who does substitute Sea World for an aquarium? I read the Tampa vs Orlando thread, and not even all Floridians agree with that. And Disney didn't disguise anything. Busch Gardens is basically Animal Kingdom, it's just that the Animal Kingdom has more "spice" I guess you could say.
What did I say insulting about Orlando and SA? Especially if what I said is a fact? Most SA residents already know this and there have been plenty of articles/reports on it. I merely asked if the same was true with Orlando, because of the theme parks. And who does substitute Sea World for an aquarium? I read the Tampa vs Orlando thread, and not even all Floridians agree with that. And Disney didn't disguise anything. Busch Gardens is basically Animal Kingdom, it's just that the Animal Kingdom has more "spice" I guess you could say.
What did I say insulting about Orlando and SA? Especially if what I said is a fact? Most SA residents already know this and there have been plenty of articles/reports on it. I merely asked if the same was true with Orlando, because of the theme parks. And who does substitute Sea World for an aquarium? I read the Tampa vs Orlando thread, and not even all Floridians agree with that. And Disney didn't disguise anything. Busch Gardens is basically Animal Kingdom, it's just that the Animal Kingdom has more "spice" I guess you could say.
Orlando's economy isn't only tourism. Orlando has a pretty big high tech industry, and has one of the largest research parks in the US.
Here are ways Orlando is diversifying its economy even more...
Not being a college grad or not having higher education like AA, AS, BA, BS, etc. is a fact, I'm with you on that. Not being highly educated is an opinion, a stereotype, a misconception, a misuse of the word, whatever. I feel that people who work at Disney with less than a HS diploma can be highly educated, just not from a school or institution. Just be aware of how I felt when you said that and I'll let up on you too. The Tampa vs Orlando thread is not the final answer on whether or not a substitution can be made for an aquarium by Sea World. I think it's fine and a lot of people I know do too, some people on that forum disagreed. Check one of the links somebody posted, it actually ranked Animal Kingdom as the 2nd best zoo, just saying. I've also attached a link that talks about how Disney marketed Animal Kingdom as something other than a zoo when in actuality it is a zoo, just better. Disney's Animal Kingdom
Last edited by OrlFlaUsa; 06-16-2010 at 02:13 PM..
Reason: misspelled Orlando, long day
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