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Absolutely. There are a number of factors at play: family of origin, environment, familial and other relationships, genetics, personal preference/will, etc.
To say it all boils down to genetics is narrow-minded IMO. Nothing scientifically has demonstrated the prevalence of a gay gene as THE determining factor in sexual orientation.
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Fair point except "they're that way from birth"
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Absolutely. There are a number of factors at play: family of origin, environment, familial and other relationships, genetics, personal preference/will, etc.
To say it all boils down to genetics is narrow-minded IMO. Nothing scientifically has demonstrated the prevalence of a gay gene as THE determining factor in sexual orientation.
I understand what you're saying but all those other factors play a very small role in the majority of cases. This is something that WE in the gay community know. We don't need a scientist to tell us or prove this to us. If you research you can find that there is a strong connection between sexuality and genetics/biology. I grew up in a very normal hetero family, never was molested (though I've had people suggest that I am gay because "obviously" I had to have been molested as a child. That's when I'm bout ready to knock someone in the face ). I've always been extroverted and have many good friends. and if will were such a factor, how many people do you think really would choose to be gay? I know I wouldn't have, but that's just the way I am and I'm not about to fight that. It doesn't all boil down to genetics, but again like I said I've rarely met or ran into anyone who became gay as a consequence of experience or environment. As far as I can tell being gay is like being left handed, or being born with OCD or being sterile insofar as it may not be nature's exact intended outcome, but it happens from time to time. Maybe people are all supposed to be born hetero but some aren't. Anyway, not trying to be controversial, just giving my perspective being someone who has experienced all of this first hand for their entire life.
I didn't "become gay", I'm more a celibate bisexual, but I had no kind of attractions to men until I was about 15. I didn't fit in with other guys and they started calling me "gay." I began wondering what that would be like and, being a bit OCD, I didn't stop wondering. Then I started liking it. For a time I started thinking I was maybe just gay, but I was still pretty clearly attracted to women too. This was all very confusing as what I even knew of gays meant this should not be happening. I mostly never discuss the matter because I think neither side will get it or will deem it impossible.
Then again I did play with both dolls and trucks as a young boy. Maybe being bisexual shouldn't have been a surprise. Still I kissed girls at that age, the idea of kissing boys too didn't enter my mind until much later. (Not that I have kissed a guy, I'm a bit romantically inept and also quite religious)
Last edited by Thomas R.; 07-08-2009 at 07:11 PM..
Reason: that's a dirty word too?
I didn't "become gay", I'm more a celibate bisexual, but I had no kind of attractions to men until I was about 15. I didn't fit in with other guys and they started calling me "gay." I began wondering what that would be like and, being a bit OCD, I didn't stop wondering. Then I started liking it. For a time I started thinking I was maybe just gay, but I was still pretty clearly attracted to women too. This was all very confusing as what I even knew of gays meant this should not be happening. I mostly never discuss the matter because I think neither side will get it or will deem it impossible.
Then again I did play with both dolls and trucks as a young boy. Maybe being bisexual shouldn't have been a surprise. Still I kissed girls at that age, the idea of kissing boys too didn't enter my mind until much later. (Not that I have kissed a guy, I'm a bit romantically inept and also quite religious)
Wonderful post thanks for sharing, this cought my attention for many reasons, It pretty much reminds me of myself..
I've admitted this online, but only recently. I worry about reactions from both sides. That the "gay side" will tell me I should get a fella or "tell the world." I'm just not a "tell the world" kind of person. Likewise that the other side will tell me I'm a bad Christian or a liar. (To my pleasure several conservative Catholic groups I've been on were quite pleasant about it)
I've only started mentioning it online as I'm in my thirties and I feel more solid about myself. Also because online sexuality sometimes seems more relevant than it is in my life. In my life it seems like people don't really discuss their sexuality as much, at least not where I live. Mostly though I do not talk specifics about who I find attractive either in life or online. There are several things I'm just private about and I don't really want to be labeled.
I do wonder if people like me are a big part of what "ex-gays" are. People who convince themselves that certain attractions means they must "really be" gay and then find that unsatisfactory later.
Anywhere you find a community that has gentrified or is gentrifying, it's almost a sure bet that the gay community was in on the ground level of the turnaround.
There is definite truth to that. As a christian, the 2 groups that really disgust me are rednecks and hard core fundamentalists that ignore what Jesus said and say waht pat robertson says. And personally, I like to avoid people like that. I have never been screwed over by a gay person, but as soon as someone tells me they are a christian (and I mean the fundy type), I watch my back big time.
This is sort of a stereotype. It is true in many cases in large cities, but for the most part statistics show that where artists tend to live are places that will at some point gentrify, or areas where there has been strong government investment or tax abatements.
Stereotype or not, it has been my observation in cities where I have lived that the gay community is the vanguard of neighborhood redevelopment. I will assert two reasons for this:
- They are quick to recognize aesthetic value under the blanket of urban decay (you allude to this in your comment about artists),
- The majority being childless, less priority would be given to issues of safety and public education.
A good example of this is the Atlanta community of Virginia-Highland. In the 70's, it was a tired intown neighborhood mostly populated with elderly residents...few if any straight couples would have considered buying there (except the most bohemian of them). The first rehabs in the neighborhood were accomplished by gays, and the first businesses that opened in the heretofore boarded-up storefronts were gay-owned and oriented (including clubs such as Color Box, Purple Parrot, Texas Drilling Company and Frank's Place). Straight couples followed them once the neighborhood began acquiring some cachet, and became active in the local schools.
Ironically, once those straight couples became established there, the gay clubs there became inundated with 'noise complaints' ('code' IMO; rowdy straight clubs such as Blind Willie's seemed to elude this) and eventually closed. It became clear that the new people wanted to replicate a little slice of suburbia intown. Many of the original residents moved on.
Nonetheless, many of my gay friends were crying all the way to the bank. Many have become quite wealthy off of their 'urban pioneering'.
I understand what you're saying but all those other factors play a very small role in the majority of cases. This is something that WE in the gay community know. We don't need a scientist to tell us or prove this to us. If you research you can find that there is a strong connection between sexuality and genetics/biology. I grew up in a very normal hetero family, never was molested (though I've had people suggest that I am gay because "obviously" I had to have been molested as a child. That's when I'm bout ready to knock someone in the face ). I've always been extroverted and have many good friends. and if will were such a factor, how many people do you think really would choose to be gay? I know I wouldn't have, but that's just the way I am and I'm not about to fight that. It doesn't all boil down to genetics, but again like I said I've rarely met or ran into anyone who became gay as a consequence of experience or environment. As far as I can tell being gay is like being left handed, or being born with OCD or being sterile insofar as it may not be nature's exact intended outcome, but it happens from time to time. Maybe people are all supposed to be born hetero but some aren't. Anyway, not trying to be controversial, just giving my perspective being someone who has experienced all of this first hand for their entire life.
My assertion, as I've already stated, is that I think there are a number of culminating factors (genetics being one) which work together.
I very much appreciate your opinion; and, I would never want to diminish your experience. Thanks for your post.
I've admitted this online, but only recently. I worry about reactions from both sides. That the "gay side" will tell me I should get a fella or "tell the world." I'm just not a "tell the world" kind of person. Likewise that the other side will tell me I'm a bad Christian or a liar. (To my pleasure several conservative Catholic groups I've been on were quite pleasant about it)
I've only started mentioning it online as I'm in my thirties and I feel more solid about myself. Also because online sexuality sometimes seems more relevant than it is in my life. In my life it seems like people don't really discuss their sexuality as much, at least not where I live. Mostly though I do not talk specifics about who I find attractive either in life or online. There are several things I'm just private about and I don't really want to be labeled.
I do wonder if people like me are a big part of what "ex-gays" are. People who convince themselves that certain attractions means they must "really be" gay and then find that unsatisfactory later.
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I do wonder if people like me are a big part of what "ex-gays" are. People who convince themselves that certain attractions means they must "really be" gay and then find that unsatisfactory later.
<<<<<
I've admitted this online, but only recently. I worry about reactions from both sides. That the "gay side" will tell me I should get a fella or "tell the world." I'm just not a "tell the world" kind of person. Likewise that the other side will tell me I'm a bad Christian or a liar. (To my pleasure several conservative Catholic groups I've been on were quite pleasant about it)
I've only started mentioning it online as I'm in my thirties and I feel more solid about myself. Also because online sexuality sometimes seems more relevant than it is in my life. In my life it seems like people don't really discuss their sexuality as much, at least not where I live. Mostly though I do not talk specifics about who I find attractive either in life or online. There are several things I'm just private about and I don't really want to be labeled.
I do wonder if people like me are a big part of what "ex-gays" are. People who convince themselves that certain attractions means they must "really be" gay and then find that unsatisfactory later.
Totally agree with you. As a man in his mid 20's, The way I see it, I could careless what people think my friends and family love me for who i'am. I pay taxes like everone else, plus its a free country.
My home state of New Mexico does not ban same-sex marriages, but does recognize in some counties. I dont ever see me getting married to the same sex, but why should we make laws against those who want to.. Like I said the pay taxes just like eveyone else.
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). I've always been extroverted and have many good friends. and if will were such a factor, how many people do you think really would choose to be gay? I know I wouldn't have, but that's just the way I am and I'm not about to fight that. It doesn't all boil down to genetics, but again like I said I've rarely met or ran into anyone who became gay as a consequence of experience or environment. As far as I can tell being gay is like being left handed, or being born with OCD or being sterile insofar as it may not be nature's exact intended outcome, but it happens from time to time. Maybe people are all supposed to be born hetero but some aren't. Anyway, not trying to be controversial, just giving my perspective being someone who has experienced all of this first hand for their entire life.