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Old 09-21-2010, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
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Yeah that's the one infamous. There is another one quite similar called the Chinese Fan Palm. Its kinda hard to tell one apart from the other by looks only.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA
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There are as many variations of palms as any other tree; some grow in all climate ranges and even in Great Britain, but the kind generally associated with warm, tropical climates only grow in a very limited range from Florida up the southeast coast to the lower Outer Banks, then around the gulf coast to Texas. Coconut palm trees only grow in extreme south Florida. Interestingly, those towering palm trees that are the state symbol of California do not grow naturally ANYWHERE in the Golden State. Every palm tree in California was planted for landscaping purposes. Typical for Hollywood, don't you think? Everything is a facade ...

Here in Georgia, the sabal and palmetto palms are the only native palms and grow only in the near coastal plain, about 50 miles inland from the ocean -- about the same as Spanish moss -- unless cultivated. Palms and spanish moss are cold sensitive and not indigenous anywhere in the Piedmont. You will not see either in the Atlanta area, which is why we Georgians laugh and laugh and laugh whenever Hollywood tries to pass off that look as being "Georgian." Even in "Gone with the Wind" they tried to pass off Spanish moss in the trees around Tara, which is a joke. About the farthest north you'll find Spanish moss -- an invasive, bug-infested parasite -- is about 20 miles south of Macon, and then only in swampy areas.

Here in Savannah, the most well-known stand of palm trees is the double rows that fill about 10 miles of the median of "World Famous Victory Drive" leading from downtown to the beach. They were planted originally in the 1920s as a memorial to local soldiers who died in World War I. At the time they were considered the longest continuous stand of palm trees in the world. Not anymore, I'm sure, but they're still a site to see. The trees are actually protected by historic ordinance:



There's more great historic palms framing City Hall on Bull Street in downtown Savannah that are about 100 years old:

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Old 09-21-2010, 01:08 AM
 
Location: Long Island/NYC
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^^^Actually the Washingtonia Filifera is native to Southern California. The really skinny towering popular ones (Washingtonia Robusta) are native to Northern Mexico which is like the same climate. Those 2 Palms are natives. However some other Palms where brought in but Cali wasn't devoid of Palms beforehand lol.

Also the Palmetto is part of the Sabal group, different Sabals span a large swath of Southeastern North America (U.S., Mexico, Carribean). The Sabal Palmetto is native to the Southeast U.S. however it's not the only native species, the Needle Palm is also native to the Southeast, it's even been found growing in the wild in New Jersey, survives past NYC without problems. It may be the most cold resistant palm in the world if I remember correctly.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA
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Well I think the thing that doesn't make palms indigenous to California is the lack of water. Palms require a LOT of water. Even in the deserts of the Middle East and North Africa the only place that palms grow naturally is around bodies of water. Southern California is so dry that palm trees were never part of the natural landscape except in some unique cases.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Long Island/NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro Matt View Post
Yeah that's the one infamous. There is another one quite similar called the Chinese Fan Palm. Its kinda hard to tell one apart from the other by looks only.
Yeah there's a whole family of those Palms (I know maybe 6 but I bet there's more), they go by the name "Trachycarpus ______". I honestly can't tell them apart for anything but I know they supposedly have different characteristics such as growth speed, cold/heat tolerance, leaf shapes, etc. I still can't tell the difference lol. Plus they all mix with each other so that makes it harder too.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Long Island/NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
Well I think the thing that doesn't make palms indigenous to California is the lack of water. Palms require a LOT of water. Even in the deserts of the Middle East and North Africa the only place that palms grow naturally is around bodies of water. Southern California is so dry that palm trees were never part of the natural landscape except in some unique cases.
Those particular Palms are very drought resistant but just like every plant they love water (not too much at once though). I've read that some Palms have Cactus-like qualities, they can go without water for extended periods of time. These Palms are also part of a lot of Desert Oasis's.

They thrive in that climate, the same exact palms (the Cali natives) that are grown on the East Coast can won't get as tall because of the humidity, however they can and do thrive.

What boggles my mind is how Coconut Palms (the posterchild for Palms) can live in the Desert Middle East, they're tropical palms that can't survive in California because it's so dry yet they're in the Middle East which I assume is much dryer than California
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 7,833,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
There are as many variations of palms as any other tree; some grow in all climate ranges and even in Great Britain, but the kind generally associated with warm, tropical climates only grow in a very limited range from Florida up the southeast coast to the lower Outer Banks, then around the gulf coast to Texas. Coconut palm trees only grow in extreme south Florida. Interestingly, those towering palm trees that are the state symbol of California do not grow naturally ANYWHERE in the Golden State. Every palm tree in California was planted for landscaping purposes. Typical for Hollywood, don't you think? Everything is a facade ...

Here in Georgia, the sabal and palmetto palms are the only native palms and grow only in the near coastal plain, about 50 miles inland from the ocean -- about the same as Spanish moss -- unless cultivated. Palms and spanish moss are cold sensitive and not indigenous anywhere in the Piedmont. You will not see either in the Atlanta area, which is why we Georgians laugh and laugh and laugh whenever Hollywood tries to pass off that look as being "Georgian." Even in "Gone with the Wind" they tried to pass off Spanish moss in the trees around Tara, which is a joke. About the farthest north you'll find Spanish moss -- an invasive, bug-infested parasite -- is about 20 miles south of Macon, and then only in swampy areas.

Here in Savannah, the most well-known stand of palm trees is the double rows that fill about 10 miles of the median of "World Famous Victory Drive" leading from downtown to the beach. They were planted originally in the 1920s as a memorial to local soldiers who died in World War I. At the time they were considered the longest continuous stand of palm trees in the world. Not anymore, I'm sure, but they're still a site to see. The trees are actually protected by historic ordinance:



There's more great historic palms framing City Hall on Bull Street in downtown Savannah that are about 100 years old:
That is not true. The California Fan Palm is native to California but it's habitat are oases in the California desert. True, that the palms growing all over coastal California were planted but that is true of almost every state in the nation that grows palm trees. Texas and the Gulf States as well as Florida planted palm trees since they grow well not because they were native. There are native palms from the Carolinas south into Florida but the overwhelming majority of palms one sees in the South were planted and are not native.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
That is not true. The California Fan Palm is native to California but it's habitat are oases in the California desert. True, that the palms growing all over coastal California were planted but that is true of almost every state in the nation that grows palm trees. Texas and the Gulf States as well as Florida planted palm trees since they grow well not because they were native. There are native palms from the Carolinas south into Florida but the overwhelming majority of palms one sees in the South were planted and are not native.
Not true, Texas has two species of palms which are both natives.

One, the Texas Sabal, which is similar to the variety native in Florida.

Two, the Dwarf Palmetto, which grows in the Piney Woods of East/Southeast Texas all the way up to Oklahoma. It typically stays around 3 feet tall & its trunk is underneath the ground with just the fronds sticking up in clumps.

Both are cold hardy palms that thrive near the Gulf Coast where humidity levels are high.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 7,833,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro Matt View Post
Not true, Texas has two species of palms which are both natives.

One, the Texas Sabal, which is similar to the variety native in Florida.

Two, the Dwarf Palmetto, which grows in the Piney Woods of East/Southeast Texas all the way up to Oklahoma. It typically stays around 3 feet tall & its trunk is underneath the ground with just the fronds sticking up in clumps.

Both are cold hardy palms that thrive near the Gulf Coast where humidity levels are high.
Yes, there are native palms in the Southern states as well as California and Arizona but that does not mean they are naturally widespread. Most of these native palms grew primarily in certain areas like wetlands or oases. But these palms were then planted over wide areas since they do so well. That was my point that the native California fan palm may only be natural to the desert oases but grow very well all over the state except the high mountains. Also, native palms are certainly not the only palms planted in California or the Southern states and there is nothing wrong with planting trees not natural to an area like Newsboy suggested. It would be a boring area if only native trees were allowed or planted.

Last edited by californio sur; 09-21-2010 at 03:37 PM..
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
12,521 posts, read 22,349,353 times
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I concur
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