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I think slengel's point is right on...St. Louis wins on uniqueness in my opinion. Indy seems like a nice, clean, growing city. But what really sets it apart? What's different about it versus a city like Charlotte (which also seems like a pleasant place)?
To me that's what makes a city, a city. St. Louis has the worlds largest brewery. One of the tallest, most iconic monuments in the world. The most storied baseball franchise in the National league. One of the best botantical gardens in the world. Home to one of the (if not, THE) founders of rock n' roll. Has one of the best university's in the United States (Wash U). And some of the most unique brick architecture in the entire nation.
As someone who appreciates an area's quirks and funkiness, I never saw much that interested me about Indy. Not that it seems like a bad place to live at all.
It's hard to compare the crime in St. Louis to the crime in Indy. St. Louis is separate from St. Louis County, Indianapolis is combined with Marion County. So if you wanted to accurately compare Indy to St. Louis, you'd have to compare it to St. Louis City+County. I'm not sure what the crime rate would be, but I guarantee you that it would be significantly lower and wouldn't be among the highest.
Indy is ranked 38th most dangerous, Stl is ranked 103rd. And if you're wondering why I used the 2009 numbers, it's because St. Louis was left off of the 2010 numbers for some reason, but Indy was ranked 53rd on that one.
Actually, you would not use st. louis county as it is not a part of St. Louis, you use St. Louis city. Indianapolis is not all of Marion county, the majority of it yes, but not all of it. City limits are city limits irregardless to how they are defined; you can't pick and choose "which" limits you want to use. Comparing city to city, St. Louis is well very dangerous well, it's very dangerous compared to any city.
I think slengel's point is right on...St. Louis wins on uniqueness in my opinion. Indy seems like a nice, clean, growing city. But what really sets it apart? What's different about it versus a city like Charlotte (which also seems like a pleasant place)?
To me that's what makes a city, a city. St. Louis has the worlds largest brewery. One of the tallest, most iconic monuments in the world. The most storied baseball franchise in the National league (funny, I thought that was the CUBS). One of the best botantical gardens in the world. Home to one of the (if not, THE) founders of rock n' roll. Has one of the best university's in the United States (Wash U). And some of the most unique brick architecture in the entire nation.
As someone who appreciates an area's quirks and funkiness, I never saw much that interested me about Indy. Not that it seems like a bad place to live at all.
K, Indy has the largest Children's museum in the world (and best), it's own iconic figure in Monument circle (one of two places in Indiana that cannot be demolished per Indiana Constitution), the Greatest spectacle in racing, iconic Indianapolis Motor Speedway, one of the best botanical gardens, and if I'm not mistaken, still the only zoo accredited as a zoo, an aquarium and a botanical garden but there maybe a few more by now BUT definitely the first, the Original "LOVE" sculpture ranked as one of the best 10 places to propose marriage, The International Violin Competition, Tony Hinkle (the mentor of John Wooden). Two of the best Universities on one campus (IU Med School, Dentistry and School of Law is in Indianapolis), one of the largest urban art gardens in the nation, more memorials than anyone outside of Washington D.C., largest mini-marathon (6th largest in US mini or full) and we can go on and on round robin. Indianapolis isn't some slouch bruh. What I found funny is that so many people from St. Louis tend try to put down other cities in order to hype up STL wait. It's not just on this forum. St. Louis is a great city, it has great history and some good architecture.
Actually, you would not use st. louis county as it is not a part of St. Louis, you use St. Louis city. Indianapolis is not all of Marion county, the majority of it yes, but not all of it. City limits are city limits irregardless to how they are defined; you can't pick and choose "which" limits you want to use. Comparing city to city, St. Louis is well very dangerous well, it's very dangerous compared to any city.
So I guess you'd also say that El Paso is a bigger city than Atlanta since El Paso has 649,121 in it's city limits and Atlanta has 420,003. In reality, most people dont look at things that way. City limits dont mean too much. Most people dont use city limits to determine the largest cities (I mean, just ask anybody which city is larger, El Paso or ATL) We look at the entire metro for that. But for some reason we use city limits to rank which cities are the most dangerous, instead of looking at the whole metro.
Metro area crime rankings actually have more use than city limit crime rankings because people who live there dont just spend all their time in the city limits, especially in a physically small city like St. Louis
And STL City+County has a population of 1,318,000 with a population density of 2,300 ppsm. Indy has 829,718 with a population density of 2,273 ppsm. So I'd say they're very comparable entities because of the similar density. So if you want to compare apples and oranges, then compare the city limits, but if you want to compare apples and apples, compare city+county
If the people are anything like they are in Louisville or Cincinnati, I will gladly, very gladly pass on St. Louis and Indianapolis. I know that the people of Lou. and Cin. can be real pieces of work.
My Southern parents also speak poorly of St. Louis. Indianapolis, regardless of what's posted here, and I've been there to experience for myself, is a denser conurbation of stereotypical Indiana. Not to be insulting, just calling it as I see it. I find the people of the State of Indiana to generally be okay at best to just downright rude in some cases.
DinsdalePirahna, a poster from Orange County, CA, posts quite often about STL. His experiences with the STL in some ways mirror my experiences in Louisville and Cincinnati. Maybe "Midwestern hospitality" is a farse, after all. Oh, and some of my least favorite customers ever have been from Milwaukee, another city that strangely enough receives a lot of praise here on C-D.
Admittedly, though, the people I've met from Northern Michigan, Northern Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota have been generally very nice, so maybe there's something sweeter in the water up that way.
If the people are anything like they are in Louisville or Cincinnati, I will gladly, very gladly pass on St. Louis and Indianapolis. I know that the people of Lou. and Cin. can be real pieces of work.
My Southern parents also speak poorly of St. Louis. Indianapolis, regardless of what's posted here, and I've been there to experience for myself, is a denser conurbation of stereotypical Indiana. Not to be insulting, just calling it as I see it. I find the people of the State of Indiana to generally be okay at best to just downright rude in some cases.
DinsdalePirahna, a poster from Orange County, CA, posts quite often about STL. His experiences with the STL in some ways mirror my experiences in Louisville and Cincinnati. Maybe "Midwestern hospitality" is a farse, after all. Oh, and some of my least favorite customers ever have been from Milwaukee, another city that strangely enough receives a lot of praise here on C-D.
Admittedly, though, the people I've met from Northern Michigan, Northern Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota have been generally very nice, so maybe there's something sweeter in the water up that way.
If you got rude demeanor in Indiana, odds are it was the way you came off. There's a reason it's called Hoosier hospitality as Indiana people are very nice and Indianapolis isn't any different than Indiana in that regard, very nice people. Lake County, is a Chicago mentality but the rest of Indiana very nice and approachable as long as they do not sense something shady about the person.
So I guess you'd also say that El Paso is a bigger city than Atlanta since El Paso has 649,121 in it's city limits and Atlanta has 420,003. In reality, most people dont look at things that way. City limits dont mean too much. Most people dont use city limits to determine the largest cities (I mean, just ask anybody which city is larger, El Paso or ATL) We look at the entire metro for that. But for some reason we use city limits to rank which cities are the most dangerous, instead of looking at the whole metro.
Metro area crime rankings actually have more use than city limit crime rankings because people who live there dont just spend all their time in the city limits, especially in a physically small city like St. Louis
And STL City+County has a population of 1,318,000 with a population density of 2,300 ppsm. Indy has 829,718 with a population density of 2,273 ppsm. So I'd say they're very comparable entities because of the similar density. So if you want to compare apples and oranges, then compare the city limits, but if you want to compare apples and apples, compare city+county
When talking about city crime, apples to apples are the actual cities, not metro. the Uniform Crime Report where all of these figures come from, do NOT look at the entire metro, it is city. It's no one's fault that St. Louis has a small corporate limit outside of the city planners. Technically, El Paso is larger than Atlanta, Atlanta has a larger MSA but its MSA is 34 counties. Your point about people in cities don't spend all their time in city limits is true for everywhere even in areas not tied to a metro. Sure you can skip a rock from one end of St. Louis to the other, but that still does not negate the argument due to its smaller land area compared to Indianapolis; you are only trying to dilute it to make it not as bad. Bottom line, St. Louis wasn't deemed the most dangerous city in America based off of St. Louis county, actually, aren't you all an Independent city by definition? It was deemed by using the corporate limits of St. Louis the city, no more so than Detroit, Atlanta or Flint.
Not sure what your pot-shots are trying to get at. You asked for links, and I provided them. This in response to commentary you made about the Indy 500. If that constitutes me instigating a "flamewar," then so be it.
You asked for links, I provided them. Now you are taking shots at me. Whatever man.
Yes, links that took almost 3 posts of bickering on your part to offer. Thank you for providing them, but in my opinion, they are biased and I just don't believe them. Doesn't mean it takes away from Indy in any way at all. If there was one thing I was proud about in Indiana, it would be IU and some of what Indy represents, outside of that....
I love how you talk about people sugarcoating Indy, and making it sound so amazing, and then follow it up with this statement. Yes, there is a lot that is better about St. Louis than Indianapolis, but there is a lot about Indianapolis that is better than St. Louis. If you want to make statements like that, then go ahead and say all of the categories in which St. Louis is better than Indianapolis, but don't just make a general statement like "St. Louis is way way way better than Indianapolis" and expect it to be taken seriously. And then on top of that you choose to say you're not buying BS from numerous credible sources on the Indy 500. It all makes your arguments look weak.
Don't even start. If that is the route you are going to take, you better turn around and head back home. In my opinion is Indy an underrated city, yes, but St. Louis has far more to offer. And guess what? In my post you quoted me in, I made mention of how Indy was underrated, but St. Louis has far more to offer. Don't bring up the Indy 500, because that is a mute point now between what the thread topic is about. Here is a tip, get over it! This is CD, peoples' opinions fly like crazy around here, and everyone freaks out when they see an opinion that they don't like. So in the grand scheme of things, they are just that... an opinion.
When talking about city crime, apples to apples are the actual cities, not metro. the Uniform Crime Report where all of these figures come from, do NOT look at the entire metro, it is city. It's no one's fault that St. Louis has a small corporate limit outside of the city planners. Technically, El Paso is larger than Atlanta, Atlanta has a larger MSA but its MSA is 34 counties. Your point about people in cities don't spend all their time in city limits is true for everywhere even in areas not tied to a metro. Sure you can skip a rock from one end of St. Louis to the other, but that still does not negate the argument due to its smaller land area compared to Indianapolis; you are only trying to dilute it to make it not as bad. Bottom line, St. Louis wasn't deemed the most dangerous city in America based off of St. Louis county, actually, aren't you all an Independent city by definition? It was deemed by using the corporate limits of St. Louis the city, no more so than Detroit, Atlanta or Flint.
Bottom line, Greater St. Louis is safer than the Indianapolis metro area. So when people are comparing the two places, they should take that into account, not just the cities themselves. Most people take the metro area as a whole when dealing with anything, but when dealing with crime stats, they only wanna look at the city limits for some reason. Memphis metro is ranked 2nd most dangerous. To me, that's far less appealing than seeing that St. Louis city is ranked #1 in crime but the metro as a whole is ranked 103rd. I'll take the safer metro. In both Memphis & St. Louis, a good amount of my time is not spent within the city limits, but in other parts of the metro. So why wouldn't I take the safer metro area?
Last edited by Smtchll; 07-05-2011 at 11:48 PM..
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