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I think if we also factored in the influence a city has over the relative percentage of the South, I think Atlanta wins out. Atlanta has influence over GA(9mill), NC(9mill), SC(4mill), northern AL(2mill), northern FL(1mill), and eastern TN(1mill). That is roughly 25 million people. Yes this is the Southeast, but the Southeast is where the majority of people in the South live. Does Houston, Dallas, or Miami influence this large amount of folks in the South? I find it hard pressed but I'm open to be proven wrong.
I also agree that East Texas is Southern, I'm not sure if anyone is disagreeing with this so I'm not sure how this became debateable. The South is also very much fragmentized. Houston dominating the Gulf Coast, Dallas the Western South, and Miami is an anomally on its own.
I consider all four cities significant and important to the South, and as DeaconJ has said, Atlanta is the de fact capital.
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215
I think if we also factored in the influence a city has over the relative percentage of the South, I think Atlanta wins out. Atlanta has influence over GA(9mill), NC(9mill), SC(4mill), northern AL(2mill), northern FL(1mill), and eastern TN(1mill). That is roughly 25 million people. Yes this is the Southeast, but the Southeast is where the majority of people in the South live. Does Houston, Dallas, or Miami influence this large amount of folks in the South? I find it hard pressed but I'm open to be proven wrong.
I also agree that East Texas is Southern, I'm not sure if anyone is disagreeing with this so I'm not sure how this became debateable. The South is also very much fragmentized. Houston dominating the Gulf Coast, Dallas the Western South, and Miami is an anomally on its own.
I consider all four cities significant and important to the South, and as DeaconJ has said, Atlanta is the de fact capital.
You can argue Dallas the cultural capital of Texas, a state with 26 million people. Then there is also parts of Arkansas & Oklahoma. (All of Oklahoma)
I think if we also factored in the influence a city has over the relative percentage of the South, I think Atlanta wins out. Atlanta has influence over GA(9mill), NC(9mill), SC(4mill), northern AL(2mill), northern FL(1mill), and eastern TN(1mill). That is roughly 25 million people. Yes this is the Southeast, but the Southeast is where the majority of people in the South live. Does Houston, Dallas, or Miami influence this large amount of folks in the South? I find it hard pressed but I'm open to be proven wrong.
I also agree that East Texas is Southern, I'm not sure if anyone is disagreeing with this so I'm not sure how this became debateable. The South is also very much fragmentized. Houston dominating the Gulf Coast, Dallas the Western South, and Miami is an anomally on its own.
I consider all four cities significant and important to the South, and as DeaconJ has said, Atlanta is the de fact capital.
well did you bother to add up the populations of the states west of the mississippi?
This was my first post in this two year old thread. I quote it again because it centers around the conversation of the last few pages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade
First off, there is no such thing as capital of the South. Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and Miami all have an argument for being the capital of the South. No other city does not. These are by far right now the dominate cities in culture, economics, strength, growth, diversity, amenities, etc. Richmond, New Orleans, Charleston had an argument for the title 100 years ago. They are not on the radar now for the argument. Charlotte, Tampa, Austin, and San Antonio are nice growing cities but are a tier under the top 4 cities.
With that said, the OP is confusing "capital" with "center." Houston and Dallas sphere reaches only to maybe the state of Mississippi and north through parts of Arkansas. That's it. Miami's sphere doesn't even go out of Florida. Atlanta's sphere of influence is much more broader than the other 3 cities. It is the center of historical Southern states which are Tennessee, Alabama, South Carolina, Mississippi, Eastern Louisiana, Northern Florida, and North Carolina. Atlanta has a much greater argument to being the center of the south than Houston, Dallas, or Miami.
THAT'S what houstoner was talking about. Now I will say that the state of Louisiana outside of New Orleans is heavily influenced by Houston and Dallas especially Lake Charles to Lafayette (Houston) and Shreveport to Monroe (Dallas). That's why I said maybe Mississippi. But New Orleans, while 150 miles closer to Houston than Atlanta, may have more cultural connections to Atlanta than Houston does but not by much. To be fair though, Atlanta's sphere does not reach Texas and it's basically nonexistant by the time it reaches Texas. This is why some people have a hard time calling Texas a strictly southern State. While it does have characteristics and has very much in common with the rest of the South. Texans have their own thing essentially different from the rest of the South.
It's funny how the definition of capital has been moved from culture, to economics, to geography, to influence, down to center of population and physical characteristics... The same people who constantly fight the southern stereotypes are now using it make a point.
Guess what. D.C. is on the extreme end of the country and is culturally different from most of the country. Guess what though? It influences the entire area that it is the capital of... Find an equivalent of that for the south. Can you?
The first part of your post are all factors to be considered. IMO, Atlanta is influential in all the critieria. But the South is definitely not monolithic, just like the cities being compared are not monolithic, but some have more historical and cultural significance than others. Your point about DC is important, one that I brought up but for a difference emphasis.
You can argue Dallas the cultural capital of Texas, a state with 26 million people. Then there is also parts of Arkansas & Oklahoma. (All of Oklahoma)
This is a very good point. However, I would first exclude the parts of Western Texas because they're not southern. I would also exclude the parts of Texas influenced by Houston due to "conflicts of interests." Whatever that number comes out to, IMO, would be the figure under Dallas influence. I'm not sure how much that is, but I'll throw a number out there, we'll say ~19million. Sounds fair?
well did you bother to add up the populations of the states west of the mississippi?
I didn't because I'm not familiar with this part. Also, there is fragmentation among Houston and Dallas. I'm also not sure of the influence Dallas has on Memphis; whether or not its the same relationship between Charlotte and Atlanta, or even if the distance is that close. So I figured I would leave that to someone who is more familiar with that area of the South.
I think Dallas would have some influence on Memphis but it's not major. Hell, I think St. Louis and Chicago would have some influence on Memphis as well.
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