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View Poll Results: which city is the capital of the south?
Atlanta 555 53.42%
New Orleans 28 2.69%
Houston 113 10.88%
Dallas 41 3.95%
Miami 39 3.75%
Austin 8 0.77%
San Antonio 12 1.15%
Charlotte 34 3.27%
other 48 4.62%
there is no capital 161 15.50%
Voters: 1039. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-21-2008, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,911 posts, read 9,594,157 times
Reputation: 5313

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
embarassing myself? You guys sound like idiots speaking for the people outside these forums. Those people don't look at the metro area, they look at the city limts. Most of them probably don't even know what a MSA is.
How much more of your foot are you going to shove into your mouth? Your defense of you point is amusing at this point.

I will try one more time. Are you a sports fan of any sort? Look at the cities where all four major leagues are represented. Why does San Antonio, while being the 7th largest city in the country only have an NBA team? Perhaps you are right and people in power making such don't decisions look at MSA numbers. They look at these numbers:

Digital Syndicate Network - Top 100 U.S. Television Markets

San Antonio is the 37th largest TV market in the country. This is a much closer barometer of the size of a city, its market. San Antonio falls right behind the lovely market of Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson, SC. Do you know the population of those cities?

Greenville 58,754
Spartanburg 38,843
Anderson 26,404

So as a business person, I am going to look at San Antonio's 1.3 million and invest ten times the resources in this region when that is how much bigger the "city" is than the combined population of the three core cities of the Greenville, SC area? Or am I going to care that all those people are located in the city limits of San Antonio, while there are actually more people in the market that the Greenville SC television broadcast area covers?

One more example of your flawed but firmly entrenched thinking:

El Paso is the 21st largest city on the population list, eclipsing such cities as Atlanta, Boston, Denver, Seattle and Washington DC. However it ranks 99 as far as a television market. By your standards, El Paso should have at least 3 major league sports teams. What 10 year old would put any major league team in the 99th largest television market?

One last interesting point to go with my previous posts, and not to inflame you Houstonians, but Atlanta is the 9th TV market, Houston 10th.

 
Old 11-21-2008, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 29,800,334 times
Reputation: 7243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
How much more of your foot are you going to shove into your mouth? Your defense of you point is amusing at this point.

I will try one more time. Are you a sports fan of any sort? Look at the cities where all four major leagues are represented. Why does San Antonio, while being the 7th largest city in the country only have an NBA team? Perhaps you are right and people in power making such don't decisions look at MSA numbers. They look at these numbers:

Digital Syndicate Network - Top 100 U.S. Television Markets

San Antonio is the 37th largest TV market in the country. This is a much closer barometer of the size of a city, its market. San Antonio falls right behind the lovely market of Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson, SC. Do you know the population of those cities?

Greenville 58,754
Spartanburg 38,843
Anderson 26,404

So as a business person, I am going to look at San Antonio's 1.3 million and invest ten times the resources in this region when that is how much bigger the "city" is than the combined population of the three core cities of the Greenville, SC area? Or am I going to care that all those people are located in the city limits of San Antonio, while there are actually more people in the market that the Greenville SC television broadcast area covers?

One more example of your flawed but firmly entrenched thinking:

El Paso is the 21st largest city on the population list, eclipsing such cities as Atlanta, Boston, Denver, Seattle and Washington DC. However it ranks 99 as far as a television market. By your standards, El Paso should have at least 3 major league sports teams. What 10 year old would put any major league team in the 99th largest television market?

One last interesting point to go with my previous posts, and not to inflame you Houstonians, but Atlanta is the 9th TV market, Houston 10th.
Actually your making your self look like an ass because you guys are reading way too deep into my posts. All I'm saying is is that normal people go by city limits. If they look at the top 10 largest cities, they're going to think those are the top ten largest cities, they're not going to be like "Well actually Houston isn't the fourth biggest city, because Dallas MSA is more populated. Do you get what I'm saying??? Stop trying to make an argument about something as simple as that.
 
Old 11-21-2008, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,911 posts, read 9,594,157 times
Reputation: 5313
Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
Actually your making your self look like an ass because you guys are reading way too deep into my posts. All I'm saying is is that normal people go by city limits. If they look at the top 10 largest cities, they're going to think those are the top ten largest cities, they're not going to be like "Well actually Houston isn't the fourth biggest city, because Dallas MSA is more populated. Do you get what I'm saying??? Stop trying to make an argument about something as simple as that.
Buddy, you are the only one that has argued this point, everyone else on this site is not swayed by the population of a city proper.

Anybody, anybody, who is considering cities whether for business, for job opportunities, for quality of life, for recreation, for whatever reason is NOT going to go by city limit data, but by regional data, whether it be MSA or CSA or market share. No one except ones that get propped up by numbers is going to care that the city limits of El Paso are large enough to have a population bigger than cities in the top ten markets in the country.

If land area of a city is so important (and that is the basis of your argument) go to the 100 largest section at the home page of this site and look at the 100 largest towns and cities in America by land area. You will find a lot of little burgs in the far west that NOBODY has ever heard of on that list. Anchorage, Fairbanks and Junea, Alaska are the only places on that list that I recognized as towns of any decent size. Most of these towns are in the thousands of square miles, larger than New England states.

OK, I have only done this cause it is fun to look up these statistics. You are not to be swayed, I don't have any reason to believe that. Hold on to your one list and cherish it with all your heart.
 
Old 11-21-2008, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,225 posts, read 25,920,077 times
Reputation: 8987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Just mentioned that for statistical purposes. When looking at the Dallas SMSA separately, Atlanta is larger, but for all practical purposes the DFW CSA is the only figure to consider. There is no break in the metroplex on an east-west line from 1-20 in the south up to US 380 between Collin and Denton counties. It is one huge sprawling mass of southern Califronian proportions!
got you. This is true. I do believe Houston is on the verge of a population explosion.
 
Old 11-21-2008, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,225 posts, read 25,920,077 times
Reputation: 8987
Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
Actually your making your self look like an ass because you guys are reading way too deep into my posts. All I'm saying is is that normal people go by city limits. If they look at the top 10 largest cities, they're going to think those are the top ten largest cities, they're not going to be like "Well actually Houston isn't the fourth biggest city, because Dallas MSA is more populated. Do you get what I'm saying??? Stop trying to make an argument about something as simple as that.
Well this is what I'll say about it. The best way to tell a city's true size is to look at it's metro population figure. Not the city population figure. And we gave you the reasons as to why.
 
Old 11-21-2008, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Atlanta and St Simons Island, GA
20,924 posts, read 32,919,102 times
Reputation: 12566
Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
Yeah that's great and all ,but the normal person dosen't go by metro area.
And on what planet would that be true?
 
Old 11-21-2008, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 29,800,334 times
Reputation: 7243
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
And on what planet would that be true?
Go out and ask random people what is the five biggest cities, and if they know them they'll say NYC,LA,CHI,HOU, and PHX. I'm just saying not many people think like us. In school your only taught the city limits not the metro area.
 
Old 11-21-2008, 02:06 PM
 
192 posts, read 536,911 times
Reputation: 66
Going with the first reaction to the list...hot Atlanta. (Though in my southern heart I'm always strongly moved by Charleston) Take care ya'll!!!
 
Old 11-21-2008, 08:39 PM
 
14,006 posts, read 21,968,210 times
Reputation: 4086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
How much more of your foot are you going to shove into your mouth? Your defense of you point is amusing at this point.

I will try one more time. Are you a sports fan of any sort? Look at the cities where all four major leagues are represented. Why does San Antonio, while being the 7th largest city in the country only have an NBA team? Perhaps you are right and people in power making such don't decisions look at MSA numbers. They look at these numbers:

Digital Syndicate Network - Top 100 U.S. Television Markets

San Antonio is the 37th largest TV market in the country. This is a much closer barometer of the size of a city, its market. San Antonio falls right behind the lovely market of Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson, SC. Do you know the population of those cities?

Greenville 58,754
Spartanburg 38,843
Anderson 26,404

So as a business person, I am going to look at San Antonio's 1.3 million and invest ten times the resources in this region when that is how much bigger the "city" is than the combined population of the three core cities of the Greenville, SC area? Or am I going to care that all those people are located in the city limits of San Antonio, while there are actually more people in the market that the Greenville SC television broadcast area covers?

One more example of your flawed but firmly entrenched thinking:

El Paso is the 21st largest city on the population list, eclipsing such cities as Atlanta, Boston, Denver, Seattle and Washington DC. However it ranks 99 as far as a television market. By your standards, El Paso should have at least 3 major league sports teams. What 10 year old would put any major league team in the 99th largest television market?

One last interesting point to go with my previous posts, and not to inflame you Houstonians, but Atlanta is the 9th TV market, Houston 10th.
No offense to Atlanta at all, but I think atlantas telivision market is up there because of all the counties that they have that stretch out so far. And I know we disscussed this before and you proved me wrong and won. But the Atl metro goes out pretty far. And the way it looks it might as well make the whole northern GA part of the metro. I think if Miami were to have palm beach county with its television market it would be pretty far up there. And maybe just maybe it could be above Atl, but I could be very wrong.
 
Old 11-21-2008, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,911 posts, read 9,594,157 times
Reputation: 5313
Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89 View Post
No offense to Atlanta at all, but I think atlantas telivision market is up there because of all the counties that they have that stretch out so far. And I know we disscussed this before and you proved me wrong and won. But the Atl metro goes out pretty far. And the way it looks it might as well make the whole northern GA part of the metro. I think if Miami were to have palm beach county with its television market it would be pretty far up there. And maybe just maybe it could be above Atl, but I could be very wrong.
I am by no means an expert on this, but I believe a simple definition of a television market would be the number of homes that when turning on to a network affilitate, NBC, CBS, ABC.... what local call letters come on? The local stations are based in a city, and the city's name comes on with the network logo and the local station letters.

I grew up in a small town equidistant from both Atlanta and Columbus, GA. This was in the day before cable and satellite dishes, we had an old aerial antenna on top of the house. If we turned it to the northeast, we got the Atlanta stations, WSB, WAGA, WXIA. If we turned it south/southwest, we got the Columbus stations. The Columbus stations were snowy, so we kept it toward Atlanta. We were not considered metro Atlanta, but since our main TV reception came from the Atlanta stations, we would have been considered in the Atlanta TV market in ratings like this.

This makes me think a TV market is larger than a metro area in most cases. However, it may divide some CSAs. According to the website I listed previously, West Palm has its own NBC, CBS and ABC stations separate from Miami, so it is considered its own TV market. West Palm at 38th place and Miami at 16th combined would put it in the top 10 for sure, just as its CSA put the area there as well.

A TV market is not equal to a metro area, but would come much closer to representing a metro area than city limit population. If someone gets their TV from a larger area, even if it is a couple of hours away, that is most likely the area one would go for shopping, entertainment, business matters, etc. You hear this term "Market" by the pro sport business. There is talk about no NFL team in Los Angeles and how amazing it is that the second largest "market" in the country does not have a team in the NFL.

Speaking of pro sports, another little friendly jab at Houston. Outside of the aformentioned example of no NFL franchise in LA (which the league has promised to address) Houston is the largest of the markets without the major 4 leagues represented. Why isn't the NHL in the 10th largest market? Houston for a while was down to two when the Oilers split for Tennesse to become the mighty Titans.
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