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Unread 02-01-2009, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,732 posts, read 6,664,564 times
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^Not to most Northerners, it doesn't.

Every time I go out to the newest frontier of the sprawl-burbs here, the diversity is striking.

The suburbs of Atlanta are more diverse than the city is.
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Unread 02-01-2009, 03:46 PM
 
24,044 posts, read 18,893,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl View Post
^Not to most Northerners, it doesn't.

Every time I go out to the newest frontier of the sprawl-burbs here, the diversity is striking.

The suburbs of Atlanta are more diverse than the city is.
There is this to consider. Atlanta has been one of the fastest growing metros in the 90's and early 21st century. Cities like Cleveland, Chicago, Pittsburgh, and many other northern cities haven't been growing that fast at best and at worst are losing population. Policies changed in the 60's and 70's. Strnagely enough, many northern metros started to lose their population due to the demise of many manufacturers. Atlanta started to gain population in the 80's and 90's and so on. Pretty soon people from all over the world moved to metro Atlanta.
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Unread 02-01-2009, 06:18 PM
 
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I like this old saying that I've heard blacks used to use to describe the difference between race relations in the North and South: In the North, whites don't care how high you climb as long as you don't get too close. In the South, whites don't care how close you get as long as you don't climb too high.

Having lived in both the North and the South, I can't really decide which is more racist or less racist - it's just different. Blacks and whites do interact in the Atlanta area (where I am right now) way more often than they do in other places I've lived just because there is a much higher black population here. There is a kind of weird formality to the cheery interactions though that makes me think under the surface many blacks don't like whites and vice versa. In California, where I grew up, literally no one would actively discriminate against someone from a different race or even tolerate anyone who would, but most whites didn't want to have too many black neighbors either.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 07:22 AM
 
24,044 posts, read 18,893,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
I like this old saying that I've heard blacks used to use to describe the difference between race relations in the North and South: In the North, whites don't care how high you climb as long as you don't get too close. In the South, whites don't care how close you get as long as you don't climb too high.

Having lived in both the North and the South, I can't really decide which is more racist or less racist - it's just different. Blacks and whites do interact in the Atlanta area (where I am right now) way more often than they do in other places I've lived just because there is a much higher black population here. There is a kind of weird formality to the cheery interactions though that makes me think under the surface many blacks don't like whites and vice versa. In California, where I grew up, literally no one would actively discriminate against someone from a different race or even tolerate anyone who would, but most whites didn't want to have too many black neighbors either.

Your first paragraph sounds like something my father would say. I find some historical truth in it.

Your second paragraph, I find some truth in that in some ways. I have known some black people who do not like whites, but sometimes they pretend they do. You say you couldn't tell which region was more racist. That is kind of what I am starting to think as well. Just different on both ends.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 09:49 AM
 
7,678 posts, read 4,083,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Your first paragraph sounds like something my father would say. I find some historical truth in it.

Your second paragraph, I find some truth in that in some ways. I have known some black people who do not like whites, but sometimes they pretend they do. You say you couldn't tell which region was more racist. That is kind of what I am starting to think as well. Just different on both ends.
California doesn't really qualify as "the North" but I think it is more similar to the North than the South in manners in that -- if you don't like someone, you don't mask that with a smile and people are just more rude all around. When I first moved here, I would amuse my sisters of stories about black guys with corn rows and wife beaters opening the door for me at gas station mini marts in "the hood." Or, one time I was in a pretty rough part of East Point and this girl was screaming at this guy on her cell phone: Who the f*** do you think is the father? You're the father mother f*****!" I smiled at her and nodded and she returned a warm smile and head nod. Keep in mind, I'm a 30-something white dude, and she was a late teens/early 20s black ghetto girl. That's just the South for you though. I think race relations are different down here because people are just friendlier to strangers.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
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^Bingo!

Great post, WestCobb.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
6,520 posts, read 2,552,042 times
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Just saw Mississippi Burning the other night.
Whoa!!!
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Unread 02-02-2009, 06:03 PM
Status: "It's a setup" (set 14 days ago)
 
26,876 posts, read 30,272,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
I like this old saying that I've heard blacks used to use to describe the difference between race relations in the North and South: In the North, whites don't care how high you climb as long as you don't get too close. In the South, whites don't care how close you get as long as you don't climb too high.

Having lived in both the North and the South, I can't really decide which is more racist or less racist - it's just different. Blacks and whites do interact in the Atlanta area (where I am right now) way more often than they do in other places I've lived just because there is a much higher black population here. There is a kind of weird formality to the cheery interactions though that makes me think under the surface many blacks don't like whites and vice versa. In California, where I grew up, literally no one would actively discriminate against someone from a different race or even tolerate anyone who would, but most whites didn't want to have too many black neighbors either.
It is different. As a person from Upstate NY and that has parents from Mississippi and South Carolina, I know exactly what you mean. I think the North isn't as blatant about it as the South either. So, it is tougher to detect it seems in the North, but I think it could be the case in the South to some degree as well.

Also, my parents are from predominately Black towns in the South, but I grew up in a suburban school district that was about 95-97% White. So, I come at this with a varied experience.
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Unread 02-02-2009, 06:21 PM
 
1,551 posts, read 2,143,239 times
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Now as for the entire country, the West is the Best when it comes to racial issues (Pacific NW, West Coast (minus LA), Rocky Mountains, and the Southwest - well, except for Hispanics)

Between the North and South, I currently would not be able to make a comparison due to how little exposure I have to the South. But from what I have experienced as a predominantly black male, the Northeast is horribly segregated and covertly racist to the point I feel that I can tolerate a more overt Southern racist better. At the same time, this region rants about how much "diversity" they have, which in their own minds, makes them progressive, but the segregation here is extremely notable. People talk about how people have the right to self-segregate, but what about those whom want to self-integrate? It seems that the American society (including the "liberal" Northeast) gives more trouble to those who want to branch out more than those who want to stay in their enclaves. The caste system is also apparent here as well, because no matter how successful a black person (especially a black man) is, they are almost always seen as inferior to a white male, regardless of the white male's income or mannerisms. This is especially the case for Asians, Indians, and Jews, particularly when it comes to socializing (making friends, choosing spouses, getting hired, choosing hook-up buddies, etc). As for "staying in one's place," this is very apparent in the Northeast as well, as there are a plenty of whites who will socialize with blacks they don't see as much of a threat (think of athletes and lil' Wayne look-a-likes) but any black person who seems just as "educated" or "affluent" as him/her can expect the cold-shoulder. As far as I'm concerned, I'm counting down the days until I can move to a much less racist part of the country (which from the looks of it seems to be nearly anywhere else outside of the Northeast). A lot of people from here can tell you it's more of a "class issue" than race, but coming from a middle-income family and dressing like 90 percent of the whites my age while still receiving threatening states and noticing over covertly-racist tendencies, it's definitely not "class" that's keeping me out of the cliques of these whites and other non-blacks. (The class issue was more of a tendency of people from the Midwest, which might explain why I've had it easier when it came to race issues while I was in Pittsburgh and other places in Appalachia).

Although I do admit to being hesitant to move to the South due to historical race relations, I find myself attracted to many characteristics of it (its soul food, polite manners, outgoing and friendly people, high school & college football culture (not to downplay the NFL), good looking Southern women, a slower-paced lifestyle, etc). And even though this isn't to speak on the South of Today, if race relations weren't a historical problem, the South would probably be one of my favorite regions!
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Unread 02-02-2009, 06:56 PM
Status: "It's a setup" (set 14 days ago)
 
26,876 posts, read 30,272,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fairfaxian View Post
Now as for the entire country, the West is the Best when it comes to racial issues (Pacific NW, West Coast (minus LA), Rocky Mountains, and the Southwest - well, except for Hispanics)

Between the North and South, I currently would not be able to make a comparison due to how little exposure I have to the South. But from what I have experienced as a predominantly black male, the Northeast is horribly segregated and covertly racist to the point I feel that I can tolerate a more overt Southern racist better. At the same time, this region rants about how much "diversity" they have, which in their own minds, makes them progressive, but the segregation here is extremely notable. People talk about how people have the right to self-segregate, but what about those whom want to self-integrate? It seems that the American society (including the "liberal" Northeast) gives more trouble to those who want to branch out more than those who want to stay in their enclaves. The caste system is also apparent here as well, because no matter how successful a black person (especially a black man) is, they are almost always seen as inferior to a white male, regardless of the white male's income or mannerisms. This is especially the case for Asians, Indians, and Jews, particularly when it comes to socializing (making friends, choosing spouses, getting hired, choosing hook-up buddies, etc). As for "staying in one's place," this is very apparent in the Northeast as well, as there are a plenty of whites who will socialize with blacks they don't see as much of a threat (think of athletes and lil' Wayne look-a-likes) but any black person who seems just as "educated" or "affluent" as him/her can expect the cold-shoulder. As far as I'm concerned, I'm counting down the days until I can move to a much less racist part of the country (which from the looks of it seems to be nearly anywhere else outside of the Northeast). A lot of people from here can tell you it's more of a "class issue" than race, but coming from a middle-income family and dressing like 90 percent of the whites my age while still receiving threatening states and noticing over covertly-racist tendencies, it's definitely not "class" that's keeping me out of the cliques of these whites and other non-blacks. (The class issue was more of a tendency of people from the Midwest, which might explain why I've had it easier when it came to race issues while I was in Pittsburgh and other places in Appalachia).

Although I do admit to being hesitant to move to the South due to historical race relations, I find myself attracted to many characteristics of it (its soul food, polite manners, outgoing and friendly people, high school & college football culture (not to downplay the NFL), good looking Southern women, a slower-paced lifestyle, etc). And even though this isn't to speak on the South of Today, if race relations weren't a historical problem, the South would probably be one of my favorite regions!
Here in the Northeast, people also have to understand that the segregation here is ethnic too, even among Whites. So, you still have Irish, Italian, Greek, German, Polish and other White ethnic neighborhoods. same even with Blacks, as you might have Black Caribbean neighborhoods or African American neighborhoods in this region of the country too. So, you to put the segegreation into context.

With that said, I do understand what you mean about status and race. Even in the city I live in, people think that there isn't a Black middle class. While it isn't as big some cities, it is present and it is spread out in pockets of the area like the Salt Springs and Meadowbrook neighborhoods of the city of Syracuse or in DeWitt or the Bayberry development in the Liverpool area and so on.
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