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I know exactly what you're talking about. My wife and I were discussing this just recently. There's "something" here that just doesn't feel right or good...
I wish I liked it more as it is quite close for shopping or cooling off the summer, however I never seem to want to go there.
I wish I liked it more as it is quite close for shopping or cooling off the summer, however I never seem to want to go there.
Odd, because I love going up to Flag! I really enjoy the town and and the climate difference. It is amazing to have such a change just 28 miles north of Sedona. To each his/her own.
Perhaps all of you who can not exactly pin point why Flag doesn't feel quite right, not friendly, not homely, etc, are really just wishing this place to be something that it is not, and therefore not taking the full advantage of who and what it really has to offer. I'm not saying it is for everyone, but sometimes looking at it from a different perspective or from an outsiders view changes the way it may seem to you. When people move from one place to the next, a lot of times the things you liked about a previous location doesn't always follow to the new location. Possibly more effort on MAKING it a better place would do more good than complaining and/or running away screaming wolf.
Responses to "CoffeeSally" from Tom Lane in Blue...
You have a different experience - we all do....
I think this city has a GREAT sense of community and it isn't hard at all to get to know people. If you say hi, someone will say hi back....
Not in my experience, but I've been in the two worst neighborhoods of Flagstaff...!
If you take a step further and say you just moved to town, you will most likely be invited to a dinner or guitar-picking evening
Not in my experience. People do not even bother to return telephone calls or emails.
..... I have many friends and acquaintances who have lived in larger cities and said that Flagstaff was ridiculously friendly... to the point that they were taken aback.
Folks I know from larger cities don't like Flagstaff because it is unfriendly. An acquaintance with a company in California thought of moving his operation here. He did not, because he had heard about how unfriendly people are.
If you have lived here for a year and don't know anyone, I honestly have to wonder if you are holing up in your house all the time or just sort of a shy person.
The people who I know well moved here from out of state. They share my concerns expressed in my various posts.
Flagstaff isn't for everyone, just like New York or Jacksonville or any other place.
With my political personality, I'd love to try Manhattan if I could afford it. (LOL) However, I love the scenic beauty of Northern Arizona from the Peaks down to Sedona - I think that, within the Southwest, it is the most beautiful area of all of the high desert!
But to be so hard as to generalize everyone here, I think, more likely reflects on the person telling the story.
No it's certainly NOT generalizing to everyone. I'm speaking for several newcomer friends of mine who are frustrated with the system. I know someone who moved here 30 years ago who also found it cliquish, and it took him one year to break in to the groups and make friends. He did not move away and became a VERY successful local businessman! This cliquishness is just part of the territory in these small art colonies......
There are reallllllllly good folks here. I know everyone in my neighborhood and did from the first week we moved in.
Wow you are in one of the great neighborhoods of Flagstaff - I wish my two were this way (and one may soon be)!
If your car breaks down here, you will ave a helping hand.
Yes, but the mechanics overcharge, taking advantage . A friend of mine has *SEVERE* head gasket and overheating problems and the mechanic did not even bother to tell her. It was readily apparent to me within 15 seconds of noticing sludge in the coolant. Fortunately, I do my own tune ups on my car and help with others. Sadly, many college students my same age are getting ripped off w/ the local mechanics. Well, all businesses in general know that rich yuppie in parents in Phoenix will bailout their kids.
If you want to go skiing, stick out your thumb and someone will drive you up to the Bowl.
Yes, but very dangerous. City-Data crime index for Flagstaff is twice the national average. Compare that to Sedona where it is less than half the national average, or Boulder where it is slightly below.
But, in the meantime, give us a chance and remember that you can't generalize folks like that.
Sometimes you can generalize. However I DO AGREEw/ you that there ARE VERY good people in Flagstaff as I have met several.
There are lots of other reasons to move elsewhere like our expensive housing, lack of jobs, etc.
Why do residents vote people onto the City Council who discourage business growth? Why do they not vote people like Morgan Hagaman in who wants to reduce the Flagstaff COL (Cost Of Living)? If I'm here in 2010 and he runs again, I'll campaign for him....
Tom,
In my experience, when someone literally disagrees with everything another person says, there is usually a deeper problem. I have extended my hand to meet you half-way in your arguments, but your tone is so negative. I'm okay with that and take no offense, but for the readers, I am standing up to say your Flagstaff is not mine. And I've put in a good 12+ years here. Why stay and bash a town where obviously others are enjoying their families, friends, native American citizens, culture, natural outdoor activities and eeking out a living with good old-fashioned elbow grease? My husband and I have worked very hard in our lives (i.e. he built a house from ground up on little to nothing, I taught children in this community to speak English, etc.) and covet our many, loving, loyal friends who have chipped in to be near our sides when calamity struck. It isn't a perfect town. It has its problem. It has some crime (NOTHING like what you infer). It has a tough, tough economy... but consider this:
The energy you put into something is what you get out of it. If you want to see ugly and refuse to expect goodness around you, then that is what you will see. I truly wish you the BEST. It sounds you have had a rough time of it. I've been in places that literally seem to kick me out because I am supposed to move on with the next leg of my journey. So be it! You can't make one city another. Maybe the wind is blowing you to Boulder because that is where your dreams will and should come true. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lane
Responses to "CoffeeSally" from Tom Lane in Blue...
You have a different experience - we all do....
I think this city has a GREAT sense of community and it isn't hard at all to get to know people. If you say hi, someone will say hi back....
Not in my experience, but I've been in the two worst neighborhoods of Flagstaff...!
If you take a step further and say you just moved to town, you will most likely be invited to a dinner or guitar-picking evening
Not in my experience. People do not even bother to return telephone calls or emails.
..... I have many friends and acquaintances who have lived in larger cities and said that Flagstaff was ridiculously friendly... to the point that they were taken aback.
Folks I know from larger cities don't like Flagstaff because it is unfriendly. An acquaintance with a company in California thought of moving his operation here. He did not, because he had heard about how unfriendly people are.
If you have lived here for a year and don't know anyone, I honestly have to wonder if you are holing up in your house all the time or just sort of a shy person.
The people who I know well moved here from out of state. They share my concerns expressed in my various posts.
Flagstaff isn't for everyone, just like New York or Jacksonville or any other place.
With my political personality, I'd love to try Manhattan if I could afford it. (LOL) However, I love the scenic beauty of Northern Arizona from the Peaks down to Sedona - I think that, within the Southwest, it is the most beautiful area of all of the high desert!
But to be so hard as to generalize everyone here, I think, more likely reflects on the person telling the story.
No it's certainly NOT generalizing to everyone. I'm speaking for several newcomer friends of mine who are frustrated with the system. I know someone who moved here 30 years ago who also found it cliquish, and it took him one year to break in to the groups and make friends. He did not move away and became a VERY successful local businessman! This cliquishness is just part of the territory in these small art colonies......
There are reallllllllly good folks here. I know everyone in my neighborhood and did from the first week we moved in.
Wow you are in one of the great neighborhoods of Flagstaff - I wish my two were this way (and one may soon be)!
If your car breaks down here, you will ave a helping hand.
Yes, but the mechanics overcharge, taking advantage . A friend of mine has *SEVERE* head gasket and overheating problems and the mechanic did not even bother to tell her. It was readily apparent to me within 15 seconds of noticing sludge in the coolant. Fortunately, I do my own tune ups on my car and help with others. Sadly, many college students my same age are getting ripped off w/ the local mechanics. Well, all businesses in general know that rich yuppie in parents in Phoenix will bailout their kids.
If you want to go skiing, stick out your thumb and someone will drive you up to the Bowl.
Yes, but very dangerous. City-Data crime index for Flagstaff is twice the national average. Compare that to Sedona where it is less than half the national average, or Boulder where it is slightly below.
But, in the meantime, give us a chance and remember that you can't generalize folks like that.
Sometimes you can generalize. However I DO AGREEw/ you that there ARE VERY good people in Flagstaff as I have met several.
There are lots of other reasons to move elsewhere like our expensive housing, lack of jobs, etc.
Why do residents vote people onto the City Council who discourage business growth? Why do they not vote people like Morgan Hagaman in who wants to reduce the Flagstaff COL (Cost Of Living)? If I'm here in 2010 and he runs again, I'll campaign for him....
If your car breaks down here, you will ave a helping hand.
Tom replied: Yes, but the mechanics overcharge, taking advantage . A friend of mine has *SEVERE* head gasket and overheating problems and the mechanic did not even bother to tell her. It was readily apparent to me within 15 seconds of noticing sludge in the coolant. Fortunately, I do my own tune ups on my car and help with others. Sadly, many college students my same age are getting ripped off w/ the local mechanics. Well, all businesses in general know that rich yuppie in parents in Phoenix will bailout their kids.
Tom, this happend to me in college at an older Chevron here in Flagstaff in the 90's. However, I would like to refer you to R&A Import Auto, Bill or Steve. They are great family men and honest, GOOD mechanics who will always be straight with you! They are well-known in the community for good service. 2932 E Route 66, Flagstaff, AZ , 928-526-2851. Hope this helps.
Tom, In my experience, when someone literally disagrees with everything another person says, there is usually a deeper problem. I have extended my hand to meet you half-way in your arguments, but your tone is so negative. I'm okay with that and take no offense, but for the readers, I am standing up to say your Flagstaff is not mine................
I've posted just about all of the complaints that big city transplants have when they enter the auspices of near-Socialists ruling the microcosm of Flagstaff. However, at this point, we'll see what happens in Flagstaff in the new year, hope for the best, and report back later!
Last edited by CCCVDUR; 01-20-2009 at 10:01 PM..
Reason: l
In my experience, when someone literally disagrees with everything another person says, there is usually a deeper problem. I have extended my hand to meet you half-way in your arguments, but your tone is so negative. I'm okay with that and take no offense, but for the readers, I am standing up to say your Flagstaff is not mine.
Tom is NOT the only one that's had a similar experience here in Flagstaff. I've been here for almost 10 years, and it'll never be "home" because of the coldness and elitist attitudes of most of the people I've met here. It's a VERY difficult town to make friends in, and people moving here should be aware of this. The city is also against any kind of real progress as far as jobs and business growth, so it's tougher than most places to gain a foothold and stay around. Because many of the people here are transients due to the economy, few solid relationships are formed.
It's just not a very pleasent place, other than the climate.
Tom is NOT the only one that's had a similar experience here in Flagstaff. I've been here for almost 10 years, and it'll never be "home" because of the coldness and elitist attitudes of most of the people I've met here. It's a VERY difficult town to make friends in, and people moving here should be aware of this. The city is also against any kind of real progress as far as jobs and business growth, so it's tougher than most places to gain a foothold and stay around. Because many of the people here are transients due to the economy, few solid relationships are formed.
It's just not a very pleasant place, other than the climate.
I've been down with knee injuries for much of 2008 and that doesn't help when you can't do as many outdoor activities w/ other people. 2009 will be better. I think the City could adopt the Richard Florida model, revitalizing the downtown with loft apartments and more entertainment venues, to attract young single entrepreneurs in the high tech fields. Given the high intelligence level and creativity of Flagstaffites, I think Flagstaff could become another Boulder, Colorado where it is recession proof due to creative entrepreneurs in the high tech fields.
Flagstaff's elevation at 7000' doesn't help, given that neurotransmitters involved with enthusiasm, extroversion, and friendliness decrease at high elevations (norepinephrine, dopamine, GABA). My own mood and energy has gone down at 7000' compared to sea level in Seattle.
I think the personalities and fear of newcomers might simply be a neurophysiological reaction to high altitude and nothing more. The rates of depression and drug use are high here (as in other high elevation cities), and there has to be a biological reason why. There would be a thriving middle class if the Richard Florida model was adopted and more small businesses relocated here, like in Albuquerque/Rio Rancho, NM.
Emphasis on small, entrepreneural, high-tech businesses. Building a giant 3 story Courtyard by Marriott motel at the I-17 / I-40 interchange doesn't help establish a Middle Class. That's a highly visible location. What a waste for a Marriott. There could be 3 stories of outlet stores, REI, Trader Joes, and Whole Foods on that hill. I-40 travelers to Vegas would exit the freeway in droves to buy discount clothing and gourmet food !
If things work out, I would stay here - all of northern AZ from Phoenix to Sedona to Page is the most beautiful area I've ever lived in. Bill, do you think Sedona is "friendlier" and more pro-business growth? BTW, in Flag, the Chamber of Commerce is more pro-business than the City. That should be an embarrassment to the City!
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My wife and I were discussing this just recently. There's "something" here that just doesn't feel right or good...
Friendliness And Community In Flagstaff
Tom - good auto mechanic for you in Flagstaff
2009 will be better. I think the City could adopt the Richard Florida model, revitalizing the downtown with loft apartments and more entertainment venues, to attract young single entrepreneurs in the high tech fields. Given the high intelligence level and creativity of Flagstaffites, I think Flagstaff could become another Boulder, Colorado where it is recession proof due to creative entrepreneurs in the high tech fields.
