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Using city data info, Austin has 1 zip code with 12k/sq mi. and 4 with 6-7k/sq mile and this number will only go up with 2 new large condos starting to let people move in. Thing about Austin is that its pretty dense in the urban core between all the new condo's starting to open and UT/capitol. However, the town has a TON of undeveloped/green belt within its city limits that bring the denisty way down. Austin can go from very urban to very rural in about 10 miles or less. That is never going to change as dense development out of the urban core is stopped a lot due to all the aquifer/greenbelt/park restrictions. Honestly I would prefer it that way as it means I can go downtown and have fun and still easily go camping or hiking whenever I feel like it. The one thing Austin really needs though is light rail connected to commuter rail. They decided to build a commuter rail first which was a mistake they are finally realizing. Hopefully this fall, they pass the new bill that would start construction on a downtown light rail that commuter rails could connect to in the future.
Note* That was 2008 data so the downtown densities are probably significantly higher as most of the new condos downtown have only opened within the last 2 years.
Using city data info, Austin has 1 zip code with 12k/sq mi. and 4 with 6-7k/sq mile and this number will only go up with 2 new large condos starting to let people move in. Thing about Austin is that its pretty dense in the urban core between all the new condo's starting to open and UT/capitol. However, the town has a TON of undeveloped/green belt within its city limits that bring the denisty way down. Austin can go from very urban to very rural in about 10 miles or less. That is never going to change as dense development out of the urban core is stopped a lot due to all the aquifer/greenbelt/park restrictions. Honestly I would prefer it that way as it means I can go downtown and have fun and still easily go camping or hiking whenever I feel like it. The one thing Austin really needs though is light rail connected to commuter rail. They decided to build a commuter rail first which was a mistake they are finally realizing. Hopefully this fall, they pass the new bill that would start construction on a downtown light rail that commuter rails could connect to in the future.
Note* That was 2008 data so the downtown densities are probably significantly higher as most of the new condos downtown have only opened within the last 2 years.
Both towns are college towns and state capitols. Both are within driving distances of huge metros (Chicago or Houston and Dallas). Some people in Austin want to be considered San Francisco and in Madison Berkeley, CA.
Is Madison as pretentious and pseudo-liberal as Austin? Do people in Madison enjoy the not too distance cities of Chicago and Milwaukee or do they trash them like Austinites do Houston and Dallas? How is the bar scene in Madison?
All right, old thread but I'll bite anyway.
Yes, Madison is pretty full of itself and the political discourse often gets shrill. I really don't know how often Madisonians take advantage of having Chicago and Milwaukee nearby, except maybe to attend major concerts and festivals. But most Madisonians are pretty content to stay put in Madison on any given weekend. I think they tend to respect Chicago without being mesmerized by it, and generally don't give a lot of thought to Milwaukee until some Milwaukeean points out how full of itself Madison is, at which point they launch into a lengthy recitation of all the ways in which Milwaukee falls short of Madison's shining glory.
The bar scene in Madison varies from standard college-town party barfholes to wannabe up-market martini lounges where the wheelin' and dealin' of state business gets done. There is also a very visible craft-beer scene in Madison which goes a long way toward tempering the college party-hardy atmosphere that might otherwise predominate the bar scene there. On any given Friday night you'll find almost as many UW students drinking craft beers as Miller Lite or similar ghastly concoctions.
I really like Madison and it has a lot of great things going for it. I would definately agree it's a cleaner city than Austin overall. However, trying to push the Madison is denser and has more of an urban core just undermines all other arguments and makes you look homerish.
I and others have already explained why Austin's density isn't very high overall for its city limits. But the argument people are using is like saying that Madison > Houston for dense urban core because it has a huge city limits which brings down its density. It doesn't change the fact that Austin's downtown has more going for it due to many of the same reasons as Madison + being much larger.
I have really enjoyed the times that I have been in Madison and it is a great town and it is very dense and has a great urban core for its size. Just try to praise and make people aware of the other great things about your city and not making yourselves look like a fool by trying to say it has more of an urban core than a city in another tier and known for its vibrant downtown.
I really like Madison and it has a lot of great things going for it. I would definately agree it's a cleaner city than Austin overall. However, trying to push the Madison is denser and has more of an urban core just undermines all other arguments and makes you look homerish.
I and others have already explained why Austin's density isn't very high overall for its city limits. But the argument people are using is like saying that Madison > Houston for dense urban core because it has a huge city limits which brings down its density. It doesn't change the fact that Austin's downtown has more going for it due to many of the same reasons as Madison + being much larger.
I have really enjoyed the times that I have been in Madison and it is a great town and it is very dense and has a great urban core for its size. Just try to praise and make people aware of the other great things about your city and not making yourselves look like a fool by trying to say it has more of an urban core than a city in another tier and known for its vibrant downtown.
Sorry, but you're the one who looks homerish by not being able to admit that Madison is denser than Austin. Austin wins against Madison in pretty much every other category you can think of, from live music to food to weather, so why can't you just admit what is apparent to anybody with a pair of eyeballs? None of the pictures of Austin in that skyscrapercity thread come close to matching the density that is found on Madison's isthmus.
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
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As someone who is a little familiar with both cities, I prefer a city like Madison for culture and "urbanity", but Austin is 3 times larger and the weather is nicer. HOWEVER, Austin is quickly becoming very overrated IMO and there is just not a ton about Austin other than their live music venues that makes it stand out over so many other American cities. So to me, it's a toss up, but if Madison were 3 times larger I may give the nod to Madison as it's more "my kinda town" and it's between my two other towns!
First post here. I grew up in the Milwaukee area (NW suburbs) and lived downtown a short time. I have lived and currently live in Madison, 1990-92 and 2001 to the present. I have never been to Austin, but I'm considering a job opportunity there. Thanks for the opinions.
What I can say knowing Madison very well not just as a college student but as a resident, professional and parent is that Madison is actually pretty hard to beat in the Midwest. That's not arrogance, at all. I love Milwaukee, Chicago and Minneapolis and we get away for a bigger city adventure often.
Madison is a pretty good blend of urban culture and small town character. With a world-class university and state government there is decent wealth in town and a fair bit of internationalism so we have many great local cultural options, especially cuisine. During the summer months, there are numerous festivals and exhibitions downtown, and during the school year big-time college athletics.
Traditionally, public education here is among the best nationally (but our Governor is trying to fix that). My kids attend a dual-language immersion program in elementary school, which is rare. There is 4-year old Kindergarten. And very few schools have major problems at all levels. So, very good.
Madison is very liberal politically but actually, but there are still a lot of old guard residents that are more conservative. There's a fair amount of do-gooder liberalism and not-in-my-neighborhood attitudes. A typical example was the resistance by the uber-liberal Monroe Street residents to a proposed food coop to replace the quaint family-owned grocery that shuttered. So, the little local guy goes out of business for retirement, nobody offers to take it over, and instead of another local entity (that co op hires people with tattoos and dreadlocks and women with pit hair!)... they bring in Trader Joes. I like Trader Joes fine, but that's an example of where Madison's liberal democracy goes haywire...
There is lingering racial tension, and though inclusionary zoning laws are supposed to prevent ghettos there are some pockets of "gang"-related crime. It's not the warzone of South Chicago or North Avenue in Milwaukee circa 1985, by any means.
Bicycling and alternative transportation are big here, but there is no rail system and proposals for high speed rail connections to Milwaukee, Chicago and Minneapolis were rebuffed (again, a problem avoided by our Governor). But there are pretty cool programs like Community Car and a Community bicycle program that are taking off to encourage clean transportation. City buses are pretty good here, and subsidized passes available for students and many downtown workers.
Property taxes are pretty high, we think and our Governor is really trying to reduce them but by comparison to other major markets ,they aren't actually that bad.
Madison's music scene is okay. I play in several local bands and we have fun but we're often bypassed by major touring acts. The scene is relegated to some pretty dumpy bars and a few small and nice clubs. The same 200 people are at every show. College students prefer the cheap beer at the State Street meat markets and binge drinking and alcohol related incidents are rampant downtown on weekend nights.
The lakes are beautiful and boating is a hobby, but I wouldn't swim in them. Algae blooms are a new problem and invasive zebra mussles aren't far away.
People here don't trash Milwaukee or Chicago or Minneapolis, that I've ever heard. True, I would prefer to visit than live there, but there are great events worth traveling for.
I just needed to get that off my chest.
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