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View Poll Results: San Francisco or Seattle?
San Francisco 45 54.88%
Seattle 37 45.12%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-08-2010, 11:36 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,149 posts, read 21,752,589 times
Reputation: 10226

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fashionguy View Post
I think in terms of research, Berkeley is really in its own league. UCLA is more in the same league with Washington than with Berkeley.
How so? The rankings generally don't bear that out on the graduate level. During grad school super fun app time, my friends (mostly in the math, sciences, and engineering) considered UCLA and Berkeley pretty equal in footing where they could go either way depending on how strong a specific professor or current research was. I wouldn't say Berkeley is a league ahead of either UCLA or University of Michigan.
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Old 05-08-2010, 05:33 PM
 
153 posts, read 331,462 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower View Post
In the academic and business world, Stanford and Berkeley are simply juggernaughts that can't be ignored. There are very few schools that are this new (Berkeley was only founded 1868, Stanford in 1891) and can claim to be the BEST full service academic institutions out there. I mean, in almost ANY program you can think of, Berkeley and Stanford are always up there. Berkeley and Stanford have it ALL! That's what makes them so amazing. The Bay Area is so lucky to have them both.
Couldn't be more true. Berkeley and Stanford essentially yielded the storied Bay Area/Silicon Valley scene (from research as well as alum), and they're truly stellar in every field (unlike other similarly prestigious schools like Caltech/MIT, which are only focused on the sciences, and Harvard/Yale, which lack any sort of engineering/tech pedigree).


Quote:
How so? The rankings generally don't bear that out on the graduate level. During grad school super fun app time, my friends (mostly in the math, sciences, and engineering) considered UCLA and Berkeley pretty equal in footing where they could go either way depending on how strong a specific professor or current research was. I wouldn't say Berkeley is a league ahead of either UCLA or University of Michigan.
Have you not even LOOKED at the rankings, which have even been POSTED on here several posts ago?

Best Business Schools
1-tied Harvard
1-tied Stanford
3 U. of Pennsylvania(Wharton)
4-tie MIT(Sloan)
4-tie Northwestern(Kellogg)
7-tie Dartmouth(Tuck)
7-tie U. of California, Berkeley(Haas)
9 Columbia
10 NYU(Stern)
11 U. of California, Los Angeles(Anderson)
12 U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor(Ross)
13 Yale
14-tie Cornell(Johnson)
14-tie Duke(Fuqua)
14-tie U. of Virginia(Darden)

Best Law Schools
1 Yale
2-tie Harvard
2-tie Stanford
4 Columbia
5 NYU
6 U. of California, Berkeley
7-tie U. of Chicago
7-tie U. of Pennsylvania
9-tie Northwestern
9-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
9-tie U. of Virginia
12 Cornell
14 Georgetown
15 Vanderbilt

(UCLA is 15th)

Best Medical Schools
1 Harvard
2 Johns Hopkins
3 Washington U. in St. Louis
4 U. of Pennsylvania
5 U. of California, San Francisco
6-tie Duke
6-tie U. of Washington
8 Stanford
9-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
9-tie Yale
11-tie Columbia
11-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
12 Baylor
14-tie U. of California, San Diego
14-tie U. of Pittsburgh

Best Engineering Schools
1 MIT
2 Stanford
3 U. of California, Berkeley
4 Georgia Tech
5 U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
6 Cal Tech
7 Carnegie Mellon
8 U. of California, Los Angeles(Viterbi)
9-tie Cornell
9 U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
11 U. of California, San Diego
13-tie Texas A&M
13-tie U. of California, Los Angeles(Samueli)
15-tie Purdue
15-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison

Best Education Schools
1 Stanford
2 Vanderbilt
3 U. of California, Los Angeles
4 Columbia
5 U. of Oregon
6 Harvard
7-tie U. of California, Berkeley
7-tie U. of Washington
9 U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
10-tie U. of Pennsylvania
10-tie U. of Texas, Austin
12-tie Northwestern
12-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison
14-tie Michigan State U.
14-tie NYU

Best Biological Sciences Schools
1 Stanford
2-tie MIT
2-tie U. of California, Berkeley
4-tie Cal Tech
4-tie Harvard
6 Johns Hopkins
7-tie Rockefeller U.
7-tie Scripps Research Institute(CA)
7-tie U. of California, San Francisco
7-tie Yale
12-tie Cornell
12-tie Duke
12-tie Princeton
15-tie Columbia
15-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
15-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison

(UCLA is 19th)

Best Chemistry Schools
1-tie Cal Tech
1-tie MIT
1-tie Stanford
1-tie U. of California, Berkeley
5 Harvard
6 Scripps Research Institute(CA)
7-tie U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
7-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison
9-tie Cornell
9-tie Northwestern
11 Columbia
12-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
12-tie U. of Chicago
12-tie U. of Texas, Austin
15 Yale

(Michigan is 16th)


Best Computer Science Schools
1-tie MIT
1-tie Stanford
1-tie U. of California, Berkeley
4 Carnegie Mellon U.
5 U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
6-tie Cornell
6-tie Princeton
6-tie U. of Washington
9-tie Georgia Tech
9-tie U. of Texas, Austin
11-tie Cal Tech
11-tie U. of Wisonsin, Madison
13-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
13-tie U. of Maryland, College Park
13-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor

(UCLA is 14th)


Best Earth Science Schools
1 Cal Tech
2-tie MIT
2-tie Stanford
4 U. of California, Berkeley
5-tie Columbia
5-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
7 Pennsylvania State U., University Park
8 U. of Arizona
9 Harvard
9 U. of Texas, Austin
11-tie Princeton
11-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
11-tie U. of Washington
11-tie Yale
15-tie Cornell
15-tie U. of California, San Diego
15-tie U. of Chicago
15-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison

Best Mathematics Schools
1 Princeton
2-tie Harvard
2-tie-MIT
2-tie Stanford
2-tie U. of California, Berkeley
6 U. Of Chicago
7-tie Cal Tech
7-tie Yale
9-tie Columbia
9-tie NYU
9-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
12 U. of California, Los Angeles
13 Cornell
14-tie Brown
14-tie U. of Texas, Austin
14-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison

Best Physics Schools
1-tie MIT
1-tie Stanford
3-tie Cal Tech
3-tie Harvard
3-tie Princeton
3-tie U. of California, Berkeley
7 Cornell
8-tie U. of Chicago
8-tie U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
10 U. of California, Santa Barbara
11-tie Columbia
11-tie Yale
13-tie U. of Maryland, College Park
13-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
13-tie U. of Pennsylvania

(UCLA is 19th)


From rough calculations of the rankings, Berkeley surpasses Michigan in ALL fields by an average of 7 places (taking into account Michigan isn't even ranked in the top ten for chemistry/biological sciences/medical/business, and Berkeley doesn't have its own med school, but rather, has very close ties with UCSF) and surpasses UCLA in ALL fields but education by an average of 10 places (taking into account that UCLA isn't even ranked in the top ten for law/business/biological sciences/chemistry/computer science/physics). Berkeley is ranked in the top ten in virtually EVERY field, and is usually in the top three schools.

UCLA and Michigan are very good schools, but simply are not comprehensively on the level of schools of Berkeley, Stanford, Harvard, MIT.

Last edited by DeusEx; 05-08-2010 at 06:39 PM..
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Old 05-09-2010, 03:53 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,149 posts, read 21,752,589 times
Reputation: 10226
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusEx View Post
Couldn't be more true. Berkeley and Stanford essentially yielded the storied Bay Area/Silicon Valley scene (from research as well as alum), and they're truly stellar in every field (unlike other similarly prestigious schools like Caltech/MIT, which are only focused on the sciences, and Harvard/Yale, which lack any sort of engineering/tech pedigree).




Have you not even LOOKED at the rankings, which have even been POSTED on here several posts ago?

Best Business Schools
1-tied Harvard
1-tied Stanford
3 U. of Pennsylvania(Wharton)
4-tie MIT(Sloan)
4-tie Northwestern(Kellogg)
7-tie Dartmouth(Tuck)
7-tie U. of California, Berkeley(Haas)
9 Columbia
10 NYU(Stern)
11 U. of California, Los Angeles(Anderson)
12 U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor(Ross)
13 Yale
14-tie Cornell(Johnson)
14-tie Duke(Fuqua)
14-tie U. of Virginia(Darden)

Best Law Schools
1 Yale
2-tie Harvard
2-tie Stanford
4 Columbia
5 NYU
6 U. of California, Berkeley
7-tie U. of Chicago
7-tie U. of Pennsylvania
9-tie Northwestern
9-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
9-tie U. of Virginia
12 Cornell
14 Georgetown
15 Vanderbilt

(UCLA is 15th)

Best Medical Schools
1 Harvard
2 Johns Hopkins
3 Washington U. in St. Louis
4 U. of Pennsylvania
5 U. of California, San Francisco
6-tie Duke
6-tie U. of Washington
8 Stanford
9-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
9-tie Yale
11-tie Columbia
11-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
12 Baylor
14-tie U. of California, San Diego
14-tie U. of Pittsburgh

Best Engineering Schools
1 MIT
2 Stanford
3 U. of California, Berkeley
4 Georgia Tech
5 U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
6 Cal Tech
7 Carnegie Mellon
8 U. of California, Los Angeles(Viterbi)
9-tie Cornell
9 U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
11 U. of California, San Diego
13-tie Texas A&M
13-tie U. of California, Los Angeles(Samueli)
15-tie Purdue
15-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison

Best Education Schools
1 Stanford
2 Vanderbilt
3 U. of California, Los Angeles
4 Columbia
5 U. of Oregon
6 Harvard
7-tie U. of California, Berkeley
7-tie U. of Washington
9 U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
10-tie U. of Pennsylvania
10-tie U. of Texas, Austin
12-tie Northwestern
12-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison
14-tie Michigan State U.
14-tie NYU

Best Biological Sciences Schools
1 Stanford
2-tie MIT
2-tie U. of California, Berkeley
4-tie Cal Tech
4-tie Harvard
6 Johns Hopkins
7-tie Rockefeller U.
7-tie Scripps Research Institute(CA)
7-tie U. of California, San Francisco
7-tie Yale
12-tie Cornell
12-tie Duke
12-tie Princeton
15-tie Columbia
15-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
15-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison

(UCLA is 19th)

Best Chemistry Schools
1-tie Cal Tech
1-tie MIT
1-tie Stanford
1-tie U. of California, Berkeley
5 Harvard
6 Scripps Research Institute(CA)
7-tie U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
7-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison
9-tie Cornell
9-tie Northwestern
11 Columbia
12-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
12-tie U. of Chicago
12-tie U. of Texas, Austin
15 Yale

(Michigan is 16th)


Best Computer Science Schools
1-tie MIT
1-tie Stanford
1-tie U. of California, Berkeley
4 Carnegie Mellon U.
5 U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
6-tie Cornell
6-tie Princeton
6-tie U. of Washington
9-tie Georgia Tech
9-tie U. of Texas, Austin
11-tie Cal Tech
11-tie U. of Wisonsin, Madison
13-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
13-tie U. of Maryland, College Park
13-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor

(UCLA is 14th)


Best Earth Science Schools
1 Cal Tech
2-tie MIT
2-tie Stanford
4 U. of California, Berkeley
5-tie Columbia
5-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
7 Pennsylvania State U., University Park
8 U. of Arizona
9 Harvard
9 U. of Texas, Austin
11-tie Princeton
11-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
11-tie U. of Washington
11-tie Yale
15-tie Cornell
15-tie U. of California, San Diego
15-tie U. of Chicago
15-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison

Best Mathematics Schools
1 Princeton
2-tie Harvard
2-tie-MIT
2-tie Stanford
2-tie U. of California, Berkeley
6 U. Of Chicago
7-tie Cal Tech
7-tie Yale
9-tie Columbia
9-tie NYU
9-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
12 U. of California, Los Angeles
13 Cornell
14-tie Brown
14-tie U. of Texas, Austin
14-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison

Best Physics Schools
1-tie MIT
1-tie Stanford
3-tie Cal Tech
3-tie Harvard
3-tie Princeton
3-tie U. of California, Berkeley
7 Cornell
8-tie U. of Chicago
8-tie U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
10 U. of California, Santa Barbara
11-tie Columbia
11-tie Yale
13-tie U. of Maryland, College Park
13-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
13-tie U. of Pennsylvania

(UCLA is 19th)


From rough calculations of the rankings, Berkeley surpasses Michigan in ALL fields by an average of 7 places (taking into account Michigan isn't even ranked in the top ten for chemistry/biological sciences/medical/business, and Berkeley doesn't have its own med school, but rather, has very close ties with UCSF) and surpasses UCLA in ALL fields but education by an average of 10 places (taking into account that UCLA isn't even ranked in the top ten for law/business/biological sciences/chemistry/computer science/physics). Berkeley is ranked in the top ten in virtually EVERY field, and is usually in the top three schools.

UCLA and Michigan are very good schools, but simply are not comprehensively on the level of schools of Berkeley, Stanford, Harvard, MIT.
Oh, I haven't just looked at them, I actually understand them from applying and being accepted to the schools, talking to my professors who advised me on the subject, having friends who have attended and have gone to those schools, and spending almost two years at a national test prep chain advising people trying to attend these schools.

The fact of the matter is, when the schools/departments are that good (the fact that they pretty much all fall within a few rankings of each other in nearly every category), then it's silly to consider one a league above the others. We're talking about pretty marginal differences where it becomes far more dependent on what specifically your research interest is in that determines which school you should go to (which sometimes yields outliers that aren't comprehensively good, but are amazing in some singular departments). The difference at the top tier, such as that between 6th and 15th, is ridiculous to qualify as a separate league unless you want to form a good thousand leagues or so of separation between all the colleges and universities of the US. It's very possible to be accepted to Berkeley and not be accepted to UCLA/University of Michigan and the other way around. And if we wanted to neurotically nitpick this, you should probably notice that UCSF is not UC Berkeley. They are separate institutions. And in terms of media production, UCLA is actually leagues (with correct usage here) ahead of any public school in the nation.
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Old 05-09-2010, 01:57 PM
 
153 posts, read 331,462 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
The fact of the matter is, when the schools/departments are that good (the fact that they pretty much all fall within a few rankings of each other in nearly every category), then it's silly to consider one a league above the others. The difference at the top tier, such as that between 6th and 15th, is ridiculous to qualify as a separate league unless you want to form a good thousand leagues or so of separation between all the colleges and universities of the US. It's very possible to be accepted to Berkeley and not be accepted to UCLA/University of Michigan and the other way around.
No, they do not. Berkeley can be considered as one the top 5 grad schools in virtually every area, whereas UCLA/Michigan, fine institutions as they are, usually do not crack the top 5, or sometimes even the top 10 in some areas of study. I'm guessing your definition of "best" is severely broader than mine. And yes, there is a difference in being the top 5-6th, and the top 15-20th. You don't see grad students clamoring over the top 15th-20th. I'm talking about the highest of tiers here, the best of the best, and only Berkeley as a public school can compete with the most elite privates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
We're talking about pretty marginal differences where it becomes far more dependent on what specifically your research interest is in that determines which school you should go to (which sometimes yields outliers that aren't comprehensively good, but are amazing in some singular departments).
Uh, you could make that case for any school.

As to quote Lifeshadower:
Quote:
In the academic and business world, Stanford and Berkeley are simply juggernaughts that can't be ignored. There are very few schools that are this new (Berkeley was only founded 1868, Stanford in 1891) and can claim to be the BEST full service academic institutions out there. I mean, in almost ANY program you can think of, Berkeley and Stanford are always up there. Berkeley and Stanford have it ALL! That's what makes them so amazing.
Although they may be good schools, UCLA or Michigan definitely don't "have it all". And just in case you'll get confused again, "up there" means the very top in each department. Not 10-20th.

Last edited by DeusEx; 05-09-2010 at 02:06 PM..
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:13 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 3,456,511 times
Reputation: 610
These univerity ranking talks are boring. I'd like more pictures for these two beautiful cities, please.
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:33 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,149 posts, read 21,752,589 times
Reputation: 10226
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusEx View Post
No, they do not. Berkeley can be considered as one the top 5 grad schools in virtually every area, whereas UCLA/Michigan, fine institutions as they are, usually do not crack the top 5, or sometimes even the top 10 in some areas of study. I'm guessing your definition of "best" is severely broader than mine. And yes, there is a difference in being the top 5-6th, and the top 15-20th. You don't see grad students clamoring over the top 15th-20th. I'm talking about the highest of tiers here, the best of the best, and only Berkeley as a public school can compete with the most elite privates.



Uh, you could make that case for any school.

As to quote Lifeshadower:


Although they may be good schools, UCLA or Michigan definitely don't "have it all". And just in case you'll get confused again, "up there" means the very top in each department. Not 10-20th.
This is more than a little ridiculous. What do you think I meant by outliers for departments compared to comprehensively excellent schools? Do you understand what it means to be in a different league? The fact of the matter is there are several public schools that are fantastic at the graduate level and are comparable to the most elite privates.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Fresno
254 posts, read 605,138 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by fashionguy View Post
These univerity ranking talks are boring. I'd like more pictures for these two beautiful cities, please.
I agree! The university thing has been done to death.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:09 PM
 
2 posts, read 4,641 times
Reputation: 10
Default SF Bay familiar but hard for new entrants

Hi,

It seems it would be easier to enter the Seattle job market if you haven't already worked in the Bay Area. Mid career is easier to get work in SF Bay, but there has been cut backs in many industries. What is your industry, or area of interest?

If you are a sun lover stay in California for sure. If you like the mountains and coastal view, Seattle.

Where are you coming from?
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:22 PM
 
56 posts, read 108,708 times
Reputation: 67
San Fran is the best! I voted San Fran. Better universities. Better everything.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:17 PM
 
1,729 posts, read 3,848,405 times
Reputation: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiodude84 View Post
SF by about 1000x. Seattle is only "gorgeous" one day out of the year when it's not so foggy you can actually see the mountains! And there's not much to do there - SF is much more vibrant and urban - it's not really a contest in my mind! Not to mention climate is much better in SF. People from other countries don't even really think about Seattle all that much but SF is famous for a reason.
Seriously. SF is a great place. But your comments clearly indicate you've never been to Seattle.
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