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San Francisco is more historic, more vibrant, more urban, and has more attractions. However, Seattle is more modern, more clean, more relaxed, and has more growth. Both are two of the best cities for natural scenery and outdoor activities. I personally like San Francisco more because it is such a well rounded place and a more established city. After New York and Chicago, it's my favorite place to live in the US. However, Seattle is nice city that just seems to be getting better and better as it grows, and I can definitely understand why someone might prefer it over SF too.
Depends on your definition of “top-notch”. Let’s compare undergraduate admissions. I for one don’t really consider a university with an +60% acceptance rate as such (UWash’s Fall 2008 class). Berkeley’s is ~20%, and even lower for the highly competitive majors (i.e. engineering/business/etc. schools).
Berkeley is currently ranked the as best public university in the nation – Uwash isn’t in the top ten (it’s 11th, behind even UCSD and tied with UC Davis/UC Santa Barbara, significantly lesser universities than Berkeley). And yes, Berkeley is virtually superior in every field. You mentioned that UW has the best primary care medical (grad) school in the country, correct, but Berkeley DOESN’T even have a med school (it has close ties with UCSF, which is arguably one of the top medical/research grad schools in the country). That being said, you obviously failed to look at EVERY OTHER major/field.
You can look up the Engineering rankings if you want by yourself, but since they only show the top 10 schools in each discipline (Berkeley is in the top 3 for virtually every single major), Washington isn’t even on any them.
Psychology: Berkeley-1st (tied w/Stanford and Harvard)…..Washington-13th
Sociology: Berkeley-1st…..Washington-17th
Business School: Berkeley Haas School of Business-7th (part of the T14 law
schools)…..Washington Foster Schools of Business-33rd
Law School: Berkeley-7th…..Washington-34th
That’s obviously not all the fields, but certainly all the most important/critical ones. You can verify them for yourself, as well as the other fields of study online. I did not call UWashington a bad school by any means, in fact, it is a good school. But what I did say, it is definitely not in the same league as Berkeley, as a whole, comprehensive university.
Agreed. The University of Washington is a great school, but it's not in the same league as Berkeley. Berkeley is more along the lines of other public universities such as the Michigan, UNC-Chapel Hill, UW-Madison, University of Illinois, UCLA, and UVA, which in my opinion, are all public universities that are often on par or in many cases surpass the ivy league and other top ranked private colleges in many different fields of study.
Agreed. The University of Washington is a great school, but it's not in the same league as Berkeley. Berkeley is more along the lines of other public universities such as the Michigan, UNC-Chapel Hill, UW-Madison, University of Illinois, UCLA, and UVA, which in my opinion, are all public universities that are often on par or in many cases surpass the ivy league and other top ranked private colleges in many different fields of study.
Berkeley is superior to all of those, on a holistic scale. (IMO UCLA, Michigan, UVA, and UNC in a group, UW, UI in another). IMO most of those schools still don't compare on a comprehensive level to the Ivies/etc., but Berkeley can. The overall undergraduate studies compares to schools like Cornell, Northwestern, JHU, and for graduate programs, Berkeley, Stanford, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, MIT(sciences/eng, not much else) are considered the most prestigious in the nation, as can be backed by the rankings detailed above.
http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nr...ings/nrc1.html
These rankings are from the National Research Council (NRC), which releases a comprehensively researched list every 10 years, and is regarded by many as the premier ranking of graduate programs.
Since I'm going up to Berkeley next week to hang out with friends and watch some graduations (including the one I was supposed to walk in, but didn't really feel registering), I must comment on my alma mater.
First off: GO BEARS!
I don't want to sound like a cheerleader for Berkeley's social scene, because I didn't really like it that much. However, academics there were really good. I posted this in another thread, so get ready for a long list.
US News and World Report 2009 Ranking of Graduate Schools
Blue: Bay Area schools Best Business Schools
1-tied Harvard 1-tied Stanford
3 U. of Pennsylvania(Wharton)
4-tie MIT(Sloan)
4-tie Northwestern(Kellogg)
7-tie Dartmouth(Tuck) 7-tie U. of California, Berkeley(Haas)
9 Columbia
10 NYU(Stern)
11 U. of California, Los Angeles(Anderson)
12 U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor(Ross)
13 Yale
14-tie Cornell(Johnson)
14-tie Duke(Fuqua)
14-tie U. of Virginia(Darden)
Best Law Schools
1 Yale
2-tie Harvard 2-tie Stanford
4 Columbia
5 NYU 6 U. of California, Berkeley
7-tie U. of Chicago
7-tie U. of Pennsylvania
9-tie Northwestern
9-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
9-tie U. of Virginia
12 Cornell
14 Georgetown
15 Vanderbilt Best Medical Schools
1 Harvard
2 Johns Hopkins
3 Washington U. in St. Louis
4 U. of Pennsylvania 5 U. of California, San Francisco
6-tie Duke
6-tie U. of Washington 8 Stanford
9-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
9-tie Yale
11-tie Columbia
11-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
12 Baylor
14-tie U. of California, San Diego
14-tie U. of Pittsburgh
Best Engineering Schools
1 MIT 2 Stanford
3 U. of California, Berkeley
4 Georgia Tech
5 U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
6 Cal Tech
7 Carnegie Mellon
8 U. of California, Los Angeles(Viterbi)
9-tie Cornell
9 U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
11 U. of California, San Diego
13-tie Texas A&M
13-tie U. of California, Los Angeles(Samueli)
15-tie Purdue
15-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison
Best Education Schools 1 Stanford
2 Vanderbilt
3 U. of California, Los Angeles
4 Columbia
5 U. of Oregon
6 Harvard 7-tie U. of California, Berkeley
7-tie U. of Washington
9 U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
10-tie U. of Pennsylvania
10-tie U. of Texas, Austin
12-tie Northwestern
12-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison
14-tie Michigan State U.
14-tie NYU
Best Biological Sciences Schools 1 Stanford
2-tie MIT 2-tie U. of California, Berkeley
4-tie Cal Tech
4-tie Harvard
6 Johns Hopkins
7-tie Rockefeller U.
7-tie Scripps Research Institute(CA) 7-tie U. of California, San Francisco
7-tie Yale
12-tie Cornell
12-tie Duke
12-tie Princeton
15-tie Columbia
15-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
15-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison
Best Chemistry Schools
1-tie Cal Tech
1-tie MIT 1-tie Stanford 1-tie U. of California, Berkeley
5 Harvard
6 Scripps Research Institute(CA)
7-tie U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
7-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison
9-tie Cornell
9-tie Northwestern
11 Columbia
12-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
12-tie U. of Chicago
12-tie U. of Texas, Austin
15 Yale
Best Computer Science Schools
1-tie MIT 1-tie Stanford 1-tie U. of California, Berkeley
4 Carnegie Mellon U.
5 U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
6-tie Cornell
6-tie Princeton
6-tie U. of Washington
9-tie Georgia Tech
9-tie U. of Texas, Austin
11-tie Cal Tech
11-tie U. of Wisonsin, Madison
13-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
13-tie U. of Maryland, College Park
13-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
Best Earth Science Schools
1 Cal Tech
2-tie MIT 2-tie Stanford 4 U. of California, Berkeley
5-tie Columbia
5-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
7 Pennsylvania State U., University Park
8 U. of Arizona
9 Harvard
9 U. of Texas, Austin
11-tie Princeton
11-tie U. of California, Los Angeles
11-tie U. of Washington
11-tie Yale
15-tie Cornell
15-tie U. of California, San Diego
15-tie U. of Chicago
15-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison Best Mathematics Schools
1 Princeton
2-tie Harvard
2-tie-MIT 2-tie Stanford 2-tie U. of California, Berkeley
6 U. Of Chicago
7-tie Cal Tech
7-tie Yale
9-tie Columbia
9-tie NYU
9-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
12 U. of California, Los Angeles
13 Cornell
14-tie Brown
14-tie U. of Texas, Austin
14-tie U. of Wisconsin, Madison
Best Physics Schools 1-tie MIT 1-tie Stanford
3-tie Cal Tech
3-tie Harvard
3-tie Princeton 3-tie U. of California, Berkeley
7 Cornell
8-tie U. of Chicago
8-tie U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
10 U. of California, Santa Barbara
11-tie Columbia
11-tie Yale
13-tie U. of Maryland, College Park
13-tie U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
13-tie U. of Pennsylvania
At the Undergraduate level, Berkeley is the number 1 public university, but ranked 21st overall (it loses a lot of points since Berkeley's undergrad alumni hate donating back!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by erin3465
The real question is Berkeley vs. Stanford
Meh, most Berkeley and Stanford people actually get along just fine. I don't have an issue with them, and no Stanford student has ever had an issue with me. At this point in time though, mad props to Stanford for producing so many Silicon Valley startups and geniuses. Not that Berkeley is short of that, but we still have to make the trip across the Bay to access those jobs.
At the Undergraduate level, Berkeley is the number 1 public university, but ranked 21st overall (it loses a lot of points since Berkeley's undergrad alumni hate donating back!)
Agreed. If the obviously biased USNews would only consider academic criteria, Berkeley would most likely be ~5-10 spots higher than it is at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower
Meh, most Berkeley and Stanford people actually get along just fine. I don't have an issue with them, and no Stanford student has ever had an issue with me. At this point in time though, mad props to Stanford for producing so many Silicon Valley startups and geniuses. Not that Berkeley is short of that, but we still have to make the trip across the Bay to access those jobs.
There is a huge wealth of prominent startups in San Francisco, which is arguably much more closer to Berkeley than Stanford (the two schools are ~40-45 min drive apart), and the majority of entrepreneurial/tech events are also held in SF.
Most of those founders from Stanford are CS graduate or MBA students. Examples include Google founders and Stanford CS grad school dropouts Larry Page (Michigan undergrad) and Sergey Brin (Maryland undergrad), Yahoo founders and CS grad students David Filo (Tulane undergrad), Sun Microsystem co-founders Andy Bechtolsheim and Vinod Khosla who both went to CMU for masters, and undergrad in their native countries, and co-founder Bill Joy, (Michigan undergrad) went to graduate school at Berkeley.
Berkeley is superior to all of those, on a holistic scale. (IMO UCLA, Michigan, UVA, and UNC in a group, UW, UI in another). IMO most of those schools still don't compare on a comprehensive level to the Ivies/etc., but Berkeley can. The overall undergraduate studies compares to schools like Cornell, Northwestern, JHU, and for graduate programs, Berkeley, Stanford, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, MIT(sciences/eng, not much else) are considered the most prestigious in the nation, as can be backed by the rankings detailed above.
NRC Rankings
These rankings are from the National Research Council (NRC), which releases a comprehensively researched list every 10 years, and is regarded by many as the premier ranking of graduate programs.
Berkeley is the best overall of the bunch, but I think it's fair to place the others mentioned within the same tier. UCLA and the University of Michigan in particular are almost as good all around, and UCLA definitely has a trump card of sorts with its school of theater, film, and television which has an enormous presence unrivaled by any other public school in the US.
Anyhow, back on topic, the University of Washington is a great school is a tiny step down in most departments when compared to the top of the public ivies.
I think in terms of research, Berkeley is really in its own league. UCLA is more in the same league with Washington than with Berkeley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Berkeley is the best overall of the bunch, but I think it's fair to place the others mentioned within the same tier. UCLA and the University of Michigan in particular are almost as good all around, and UCLA definitely has a trump card of sorts with its school of theater, film, and television which has an enormous presence unrivaled by any other public school in the US.
Anyhow, back on topic, the University of Washington is a great school is a tiny step down in most departments when compared to the top of the public ivies.
Agreed. If the obviously biased USNews would only consider academic criteria, Berkeley would most likely be ~5-10 spots higher than it is at the moment.
Yeah, there's really an inherent anti-public school bias in US News. Schools like Michigan and Berkeley in the early 1990s were ranked in the top 15 (with Berkeley undergraduate about to break top 10) until non-academic factors relating to funding came into play. Even Stanford, our long lost rivals said that's not right.
However, US News can rank however it wants. It's a privately owned magazine with private interests. Besides, if an undergraduate ranks a school solely on rank, then I wouldn't really want to be their classmate anyways. I judge how good a school is on (partially) academic excellence and what type of people they produce. I liked Berkeley because they produced some of the greatest minds of the 20th and 21st century WITHOUT having to really break my wallet (didn't really have to pay anything my first year there).
Arguably, for being ranked 21st as an undergrad, a lot of Berkeley undergrads have gone out and done great things.
Quote:
There is a huge wealth of prominent startups in San Francisco, which is arguably much more closer to Berkeley than Stanford (the two schools are ~40-45 min drive apart), and the majority of entrepreneurial/tech events are also held in SF.
Most of those founders from Stanford are CS graduate or MBA students. Examples include Google founders and Stanford CS grad school dropouts Larry Page (Michigan undergrad) and Sergey Brin (Maryland undergrad), Yahoo founders and CS grad students David Filo (Tulane undergrad), Sun Microsystem co-founders Andy Bechtolsheim and Vinod Khosla who both went to CMU for masters, and undergrad in their native countries, and co-founder Bill Joy, (Michigan undergrad) went to graduate school at Berkeley.
In the academic and business world, Stanford and Berkeley are simply juggernaughts that can't be ignored. There are very few schools that are this new (Berkeley was only founded 1868, Stanford in 1891) and can claim to be the BEST full service academic institutions out there. I mean, in almost ANY program you can think of, Berkeley and Stanford are always up there. Berkeley and Stanford have it ALL! That's what makes them so amazing. The Bay Area is so lucky to have them both.
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A few pics from my last San Francisco trip
