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View Poll Results: Denver vs. Minneapolis
Denver 118 51.98%
Minneapolis 109 48.02%
Voters: 227. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-15-2009, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist View Post
I don't know enough about Denver to comment on that front, but Minneapolis and St. Paul are certainly FAR more alike than San Diego and Tijuana, so that comparison is pretty misleading for someone not familiar with the Twin Cities. I grew up in Minneapolis, have spent plenty of time in St. Paul, and think that overall the two are far more alike than different, and function as sort of duo-central city core of the larger metro area. I agree that they are two separate cities and have their own historic identities and politics, but overall they're not very different. (versus Tijuana and San Diego which are near each other in location but which are drastically different in many ways, and are struggling with very different issues.)
Chances are if you ask a St Paul resident about their city's similarity to Minneapolis and you would get a response akin to a Montanan identifying with New York City. Most of the Minneapolitans would lack an understanding or appreciation of St Paul outside of a route to the Xcel Center and most would need a road map to find Grand or Payne Avenue. How many times have you heard a resident from Minneapolis complain about the un-navigatable streets of St Paul and a St Paul resident say the same about Minneapolis. I've lived and worked in both cities and love them both. All I'm saying is to include St Paul as a co-joined twin with MPLS in a comparisson to Denver is ludicrous.
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Old 04-15-2009, 10:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
The contention that Minneapolis and St. Paul are the same city is actually quite ludicrous. It's true they border each other but, they are no more alike than San Diego and Tijuana are alike. That is not to say St Paul is the Tijuana, it's certainly not the same city as Minneapolis. In fact, it's habitually looked down on by it's Western neighbor and for anyone to claim kinship between the two is inaccurate.
It's not ludicrous at all. Obviously, MPLS. & STPL. are two seperate cities and there is a friendly rivalry between the two and some residents from each city won't even venture into the next, but you can't deny the fact that the two cities function as one. Hell, people from outside the TC area and outstate MN can't differentiate what's in Minneapolis from what's in St. Paul. Hence, the reasoning people usually talk about both cities as one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
If you truly wanted to count office environment in the Mpls area you'd have to include the 494 strip running West from the airport in the SE, 10 miles across across Bloomington (MOA/Best Buy HQ) and into Eden Prairie in the SW suburbs. There is significantly more office space, retail and employees along this strip then St Paul.
We've been discussing office space and employment in the cities' CBDs. Who cares how much office space Eden Prairie has.
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Old 04-15-2009, 10:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist View Post
I don't know enough about Denver to comment on that front, but Minneapolis and St. Paul are certainly FAR more alike than San Diego and Tijuana, so that comparison is pretty misleading for someone not familiar with the Twin Cities. I grew up in Minneapolis, have spent plenty of time in St. Paul, and think that overall the two are far more alike than different, and function as sort of duo-central city core of the larger metro area. I agree that they are two separate cities and have their own historic identities and politics, but overall they're not very different. (versus Tijuana and San Diego which are near each other in location but which are drastically different in many ways, and are struggling with very different issues.)


Some people still struggle with the fact that we are no longer in the 1800s. The seperate identities MPLS. & STPL. once had are long gone.
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Old 04-15-2009, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackOut View Post
It's not ludicrous at all. Obviously, MPLS. & STPL. are two seperate cities and there is a friendly rivalry between the two and some residents from each city won't even venture into the next, but you can't deny the fact that the two cities function as one. Hell, people from outside the TC area and outstate MN can't differentiate what's in Minneapolis from what's in St. Paul. Hence, the reasoning people usually talk about both cities as one.

You are either not from this state or, you are just confused if you think someone from the Iron Range, the SW farmlands or the SE river bluffs would ever confuse the two. It simply isn't reality and you don't know what your talking about. The only people who think they are the same city is the out-of-staters or someone who hasn't set foot out of Minneapolis.

We've been discussing office space and employment in the cities' CBDs. Who cares how much office space Eden Prairie has.
And you've taken this out of context. My point was to refute the continual inclusion of the smaller St Paul CBD into the Mpls v Denver thread. St Paul's CBD is less relevant to MPLS's CBD than the Souther burbs. Neither should be lumped in with MPLS.
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Old 04-15-2009, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
20,344 posts, read 20,441,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackOut View Post
It's not ludicrous at all. Obviously, MPLS. & STPL. are two seperate cities and there is a friendly rivalry between the two and some residents from each city won't even venture into the next, but you can't deny the fact that the two cities function as one. Hell, people from outside the TC area and outstate MN can't differentiate what's in Minneapolis from what's in St. Paul. Hence, the reasoning people usually talk about both cities as one.
You are either not from this state or, you are just confused if you think someone from the Iron Range, the SW farmlands or the SE river bluffs would ever confuse the two. It simply isn't reality and you don't know what your talking about. The only people who think they are the same city is the out-of-staters or someone who hasn't set foot out of Minneapolis. Certainly no one from St Paul would claim they are the same city.
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
And you've taken this out of context. My point was to refute the continual inclusion of the smaller St Paul CBD into the Mpls v Denver thread. St Paul's CBD is less relevant to MPLS's CBD than the Souther burbs. Neither should be lumped in with MPLS.
St. Paul was brought into the discussion for a number of reasons. For instance, someone referred to the Twin Cities as having 190 highrises, which isn't true. Minneapolis has 190 highrises, while St. Paul has 68. St. Paul's CBD was brought into the conversation because someone had posted employment numbers for the Minneapolis-St. Paul CBD. The numbers are wrong and a MPLS./STPL. CBD doesn't exist. If you would have went back a few pages, you would have noticed that I refuted the numbers and pointed out that there are two seperate CBDs. I even posted employment numbers for both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
You are either not from this state or, you are just confused if you think someone from the Iron Range, the SW farmlands or the SE river bluffs would ever confuse the two. It simply isn't reality and you don't know what your talking about. The only people who think they are the same city is the out-of-staters or someone who hasn't set foot out of Minneapolis. Certainly no one from St Paul would claim they are the same city
I'm not from Minnesota and I never stated someone from the Iron Range, the SW farmlands or the SE river blusffs would confuse the two. I stated only people from outside the TC area and outstate MN (meaning the Iron Range, the SW farmlands, etc...) can't differentiate what's in Minneapolis from what's in St. Paul. Before I moved to the TC area all I knew about Minneapolis was that Prince is from here and that St. Paul is the state capital. I now know the history of each city and can obviously differentiate between the two. I also know how they rely on one another and how they pretty much function as one city; much more so than say, San Diego and Tijuana. If you think otherwise, you either have too much pride (maybe you're from St. Paul) or you're completely clueless.

Last edited by BlackOut; 04-16-2009 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
20,344 posts, read 20,441,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackOut View Post
St. Paul was brought into the discussion for a number of reasons. For instance, someone referred to the Twin Cities as having 190 highrises, which isn't true. Minneapolis has 190 highrises, while St. Paul has 68. St. Paul's CBD was brought into the conversation because someone had posted employment numbers for the Minneapolis-St. Paul CBD. The numbers are wrong and a MPLS./STPL. CBD doesn't exist. If you would have went back a few pages, you would have noticed that I refuted the numbers and pointed out that there are two seperate CBDs. I even posted employment numbers for both.



I'm not from Minnesota and I never stated someone from the Iron Range, the SW farmlands or the SE river blusffs would confuse the two. I stated only people from outside the TC area and outstate MN (meaning the Iron Range, the SW farmlands, etc...) can't differentiate what's in Minneapolis from what's in St. Paul. Before I moved to the TC area all I knew about Minneapolis was that Prince is from here and that St. Paul is the state capital. I now know the history of each city and can obviously differentiate between the two. I also know how they rely on one another and how they pretty much function as one city; much more so than say, San Diego and Tijuana. If you think otherwise, you either have too much pride (maybe you're from St. Paul) or you're completely clueless.
On your 1st point, it appears we are agreeing with each other and as the original OP was comparing Denver to Mpls not Denver to the Twin Cities, don't really know why I should care but I felt the inlcusion of St Paul or the "Strip" to the topic was irrelevant.

We'll just have to disagree on your 2nd point. I'm not from St Paul but I am in the commercial office real estate industry and have worked many years in both downtowns. If anything I have more ties and allegiance to Mpls than St Paul. However, the two cities are completely independent from one another politically, culturally and socially. Two cities that happen to share a common border.

Last edited by Ghengis; 04-16-2009 at 12:27 PM..
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-town 720 View Post
Why are you now comparing metros on a city vs city thread??? Didnt you claim that Denver lagged in development compared to minneapolis? Obviously it didnt according to the pop numbers...
Somebody, five or so pages back, asked why the tangle of freeways was worse in the Cities than in Denver. I stated that it was probably the case because one metropolitan region was twice as large as another fifty years ago -- when most freeways were beginning to be planned and built. It wasn't trying to slam Denver, it wasn't meant to boost Minneapolis. Someone could have asked about how old downtowns were laid out, and I could have made a casual observation that Minneapolis and Glouchester, Mass. were the same size in 1860. Just because I use history to compare places doesn't mean that I define them by it. Denver obviously isn't the same city that it was in the Eisenhower Administration, and neither are Minneapolis or Saint Paul. According to population numbers, Denver did lag behind the Mpls./St. Paul region in terms of size and development -- fifty years ago. According to the population numbers, that is no longer really the case. If you still don't get that, you need to get out of Denver and allow some heavier oxygen back in your head.
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Old 12-19-2009, 12:46 AM
 
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Ghengis stated: "I'm not from St Paul but I am in the commercial office real estate industry and have worked many years in both downtowns. If anything I have more ties and allegiance to Mpls than St Paul. However, the two cities are completely independent from one another politically, culturally and socially. Two cities that happen to share a common border."

As a native Minneapolitan and St. Paul dweller for over twenty two years, it is clear that the ONLY division that really exists between Minneapolis and St. Paul is political (besides a few 65 year-old curmudgeons on either side that insist on retaining 50-year-old biases/opinions "I never go over THERE" kind of attitude). To state that the two cities are "completely independent" from one another socially and culturally is to ignore the changes of the last fifty years or so, when the entire Twin Cities Metro evolved into what it is today... a modern, interconnected, culturally and socially interpenetrated and united urban fabric.

Although the two cities have different functions in the "body" of the Twin Cities, functioning very separately politically (Mpls: city/federal, St. Paul: city/state), there is SO much "cross pollenization" culturally and socially that an essentially neurotic "either/or" view of their existence no longer fits reality. They are both distinct AND vitally interconnected. To claim they are completely independent of one another is to ignore the new reality.
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:37 AM
 
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"One thing I really miss about Denver and the Front Range is the considerably smaller number of theatres and other artistic outlets. The Twin Cities has the second highest number of theatre seats in the country after New York City."


I am truly curious on this one! Many cities (including Denver) claim this to be true! In fact, I think it IS TRUE that the DPAC has the 2nd most amount of seats under one roof in the US after NY. So Denver should win in this category yes? Might be interesting to see the actual true numbers on this as many cities claim to be number 2! Denver's claim, as mentioned is total seats under one roof! As far as music scenes, few can touch Denver's! Slim Cessna's Auto Club (Denver band) is constantly ranked as THE BEST live show in the US! Look it up on their website which shows the links! We also have The Fray (#1 album), 303 (a few hits), and several other groups that are constantly on the national airwaves! Oh yeah, Devachka and 16 Horsepower as well! Not sure on Minne though. Prince I guess. But lately, Denver is for sure leading in this category! Tons of great little places to catch local bands all over Denver metor as well! I am sure Minne has these as well. As for art scene, not truly sure which is better! We are just completing our MOMA by a renowned architect, and also just starting on the CLifford Stiles Museum which his wife donated his entire 2,000 plus piece collection to! Not to mention the expansion of the Denver Art Museum last year! We are no slouch in art!
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