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I think it's common knowledge that most consider Minneapolis and St. Paul to be one city. The two literally border one another and combined, are actually smaller than the city of Denver. Ouch.
I don't think anybody thinks saint paul and minneapolis are the same city anymore than Aurora and Denver are. If you need to add another city to minneapolis to make it look better than I think you have lost the point of a city vs city discussion.
I knew I shouldn't have gone back and read through some of the nonsense.
I think it's also common knowledge that the Twin Cities area supports the arts scene very well. The Minneapolis area is second to New York City in live theater per capita and is the third-largest theater market in the U.S.
And in terms of highrises, if you're going to use the Twin Cities, (meaning Minneapolis and St. Paul) Minneapolis has 190 highrises and St. Paul has 68.
Again adding another city to minneapolis to beef it up...why?
My point was simply that Minneapolis and Saint Paul formed a much larger metropolitan area than Denver did 60 years ago -- that profoundly influences the traffic patterns of an area. It wasn't a pissing contest until you decided to make it one.
Why are you now comparing metros on a city vs city thread??? Didnt you claim that Denver lagged in development compared to minneapolis? Obviously it didnt according to the pop numbers...
Those employment numbers are very suspect considering the study lists Minneapolis - St. Paul. The two cities have seperate CBDs.
Why did you leave out the fact that Denver's CBD is 1.53 square miles and Minneapolis's CBD is .72 square miles?
BTW, Minneapolis's CBD employment is about 147,000 and St. Paul's is about 48,000.
Denver's CBD is NOT 1.5 sq miles its downtown area is though. there isnt 63k people in denvers CBD! I could only wish!
Have no idea where you're getting those CBD numbers for the twin cities. The link does not support it.
I am getting that (correct me if I am wrong) the twin cities CBD (which is shared) has 1.7 million sq ft of retail space. Denver downtown claims to have 3.5 million.
I don't think anybody thinks saint paul and minneapolis are the same city anymore than Aurora and Denver are. If you need to add another city to minneapolis to make it look better than I think you have lost the point of a city vs city discussion.
Huh? I'm tired of having to inform or remind Denver members that I moved from Denver to Minneapolis and now have a better understanding of this lame p*ssing contest than they do - especially those of you from Denver that have never left that area.
Anyway, you obvioulsy have never been to the Minneapolis area and have no idea as to how Minneapolis-St. Paul function - even as one central city. To say Denver - Aurora is like Minneapolis - St. Paul is completely ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-town 720
Denver's CBD is NOT 1.5 sq miles its downtown area is though. there isnt 63k people in denvers CBD! I could only wish!
Have no idea where you're getting those CBD numbers for the twin cities. The link does not support it.
I am getting that (correct me if I am wrong) the twin cities CBD (which is shared) has 1.7 million sq ft of retail space. Denver downtown claims to have 3.5 million.
Minneapolis and St. Paul each have CBDs. It's very unlikely that downtown Denver has that much more retail space than downtown Minneapolis.
This article is regarding the Twin Cities area as a whole.
Here's a quick lesson D-town. When an article or someone mentions the Twin Cities area, it's usually regarding the metro area. Otherwise, the article would have said the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul.
Huh? I'm tired of having to inform or remind Denver members that I moved from Denver to Minneapolis and now have a better understanding of this lame p*ssing contest than they do - especially those of you from Denver that have never left that area.
Anyway, you obvioulsy have never been to the Minneapolis area and have no idea as to how Minneapolis-St. Paul function - even as one central city. To say Denver - Aurora is like Minneapolis - St. Paul is completely ridiculous.
I dont know where you got off presuming I have lived in Denver all my life. try 4 months and I lived in SF, Sacramento, Salt lake city, Oakland.
This isn't about a pissing contest just a disagreement about facts. If st paul and minneapolis are one city then how do they have seperate CBD's? You're not making sense here. The data is clear about Denver having a larger CBD than Minneapolis. Why cant you conceed that? Your 146k figure is density and not overall CBD workers. If Minneapolis-saint paul WERE a mile and not .73 than it WOULD have 146k workers - but it does not!
The Denver downtown area is 1.5 miles sq. Its CBD is like just under a mile. obviously the link is counting Denver's CBD as its downtown. Some cities do not have a difference between their downtown and CBD (lost of western cities). I do not know if this is the case with minneapolis but this is really moot and more of a side issue.
Denver CBD > Minneapolis = the end
Please stop grasping straws
What's my age have to do with whether I am right or not? That's an ad hominem attack.
[SIZE=3][SIZE=3][LEFT]Table 1
RANKING: CBD EMPLOYMENT[/LEFT] [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=3][SIZE=3][LEFT]Rank Urban Area Employment
Land Area
(Square Miles)
Employment
Density
1 New York 1,736,900 7.82 222,100
2 Chicago 541,500 3.36 161,200
3 Washington 382,400 2.30 166,300
4 San Francisco-San Jose 305,600 2.34 130,600
5 Boston 257,000 1.23 208,900
6 Philadelphia 220,100 1.71 128,700
7 Seattle 155,100 1.48 104,800
8 Houston 153,400 1.53 100,300
9 Los Angeles 143,700 1.25 115,000
10 Atlanta 129,800 2.17 59,800
11 Denver 126,000 1.53 82,400
12 Minneapolis-St. Paul 105,400 0.72 146,400[/LEFT]
13 Cleveland 100,300 1.54 65,100
[/SIZE][/SIZE]
I dont know where you got off presuming I have lived in Denver all my life. try 4 months and I lived in SF, Sacramento, Salt lake city, Oakland.
LOL! I lived in Denver for years (and visit often) and Minneapolis for about 10 years. Have you even visited the Minneapolis area?
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-town 720
This isn't about a pissing contest just a disagreement about facts. If st paul and minneapolis are one city then how do they have seperate CBD's? You're not making sense here. The data is clear about Denver having a larger CBD than Minneapolis. Why cant you conceed that? Your 146k figure is density and not overall CBD workers. If Minneapolis-saint paul WERE a mile and not .73 than it WOULD have 146k workers - but it does not!
Yes, Denver has a larger CBD in terms of land area, but not in terms of employment. I wasn't even going by employment density, but Minneapolis would obviously have a higher density as its CBD is smaller.
Minneapolis and St. Paul are two separate cities with separate CBDs. Most people, however, refer to them as one. This has to do with the history of the two and how they have functioned together over years. It makes total sense. You just don't get it.
Also, my CBD numbers are from a Minneapolis-St. Paul transit report released by the Federal Transit Administration. Those numbers are about as legitimate as it gets.
BTW, demographia.com also has CBD employment lists that reference 1990 numbers. These lists have Minneapolis's CBD employment at over 128,000 and St. Paul's at over 40,000. There is no way CBD employment numbers have gone down in either Minneapolis or St. Paul. Hell, downtown Minneapolis has added millions of sq. feet to its total office space since 1990 and I know employers have either moved in and or expanded. You can't dispute these facts. http://www.demographia.com/dm-uscbd.htm http://www.demographia.com/db-intlcbd.htm
IMO, Denver beats Minneapolis in terms of shopping and SOME outdoor activities, but Minneapolis wins out in pretty much every other area.
The shopping issue was the only thing I was debating with someone else earlier; the other issues I can't debate intelligently as I am unaware of those differences..My friends here in Denver who have lived in Minneapolis all rave about the culture and music scene in the Twin Cities..I always enjoy visiting Minneapolis..beautiful city..
I think it's common knowledge that most consider Minneapolis and St. Paul to be one city. The two literally border one another and combined, are actually smaller than the city of Denver. Ouch.
The contention that Minneapolis and St. Paul are the same city is actually quite ludicrous. It's true they border each other but, they are no more alike than San Diego and Tijuana are alike. That is not to say St Paul is the Tijuana, it's certainly not the same city as Minneapolis. In fact, it's habitually looked down on by it's Western neighbor and for anyone to claim kinship between the two is inaccurate.
If you truly wanted to count office environment in the Mpls area you'd have to include the 494 strip running West from the airport in the SE, 10 miles across across Bloomington (MOA/Best Buy HQ) and into Eden Prairie in the SW suburbs. There is significantly more office space, retail and employees along this strip then St Paul.
But this is about Denver & Minneapolis. Having seen both frequently, I'd pick Minneapolis any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Denveropolitans inevitable fall back has something to do with the mountains that are 30 miles away. So then move to Breckenridge. If we are sticking to Denver v Mpls, Minneapolis has it hands down in education, culture, nightlife, music scene, breweries, theater, parks and general ambiance. Denver is a dusty city with a nice back drop.
The contention that Minneapolis and St. Paul are the same city is actually quite ludicrous. It's true they border each other but, they are no more alike than San Diego and Tijuana are alike. That is not to say St Paul is the Tijuana, it's certainly not the same city as Minneapolis. In fact, it's habitually looked down on by it's Western neighbor and for anyone to claim kinship between the two is inaccurate.
I don't know enough about Denver to comment on that front, but Minneapolis and St. Paul are certainly FAR more alike than San Diego and Tijuana, so that comparison is pretty misleading for someone not familiar with the Twin Cities. I grew up in Minneapolis, have spent plenty of time in St. Paul, and think that overall the two are far more alike than different, and function as sort of duo-central city core of the larger metro area. I agree that they are two separate cities and have their own historic identities and politics, but overall they're not very different. (versus Tijuana and San Diego which are near each other in location but which are drastically different in many ways, and are struggling with very different issues.)
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