U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Easter!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
View Poll Results: Which Cities Have a Truly Urban Downtown?
Boston 140 47.14%
Providence 32 10.77%
Hartford 17 5.72%
New York City 204 68.69%
Buffalo 20 6.73%
Philadelphia 146 49.16%
Pittsburgh 61 20.54%
Baltimore 55 18.52%
Washington D.C. 89 29.97%
Charlotte 16 5.39%
Atlanta 35 11.78%
Jacksonville 7 2.36%
Orlando 9 3.03%
Tampa 11 3.70%
Miami 34 11.45%
Nashville 15 5.05%
Memphis 18 6.06%
Cleveland 33 11.11%
Columbus 16 5.39%
Cincinnati 33 11.11%
Detroit 40 13.47%
Indianapolis 25 8.42%
Chicago 156 52.53%
Milwaukee 38 12.79%
Minneapolis 42 14.14%
St. Louis 33 11.11%
Kansas City 21 7.07%
New Orleans 44 14.81%
Houston 28 9.43%
Dallas 30 10.10%
San Antonio 20 6.73%
Austin 17 5.72%
Denver 40 13.47%
Phoenix 10 3.37%
Las Vegas 11 3.70%
San Diego 38 12.79%
Los Angeles 55 18.52%
San Francisco 150 50.51%
Portland 44 14.81%
Seattle 91 30.64%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 297. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Unread 04-10-2009, 04:46 AM
 
7,852 posts, read 11,543,010 times
Reputation: 2581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
I don't see your point. These are the downtowns defined by the cities themselves, and "downtown" is not necessarily synonymous with "Central Business District." I can also tell you that you're simply wrong about Philadelphia's Center City population, for example. It's definitely not exaggerated -- if anything, it's understated.

You make it sound as if these areas are in far flung neighborhoods of the city when, in fact, CC is a very small, dense core with neighborhoods in immediate proximity to the CBD. That figure does not include neighborhoods outside of this boundary:



3.3 sq. miles out of 127 city sq. miles total is not what I'd consider far flung or "exaggerated" by any stretch.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/24/CCPhilaDistrict.PNG (broken link)

Well, I didn't make it up...

Quote:
Center City is bounded by South Street to the south, the Delaware River to the east, the Schuylkill River to the west and either Vine Street or Spring Garden Street to the north (though the 88,000 population figure corresponds to an expanded area of roughly Poplar Street south to Christian Street)
Center City, Philadelphia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 88,000 figure is from an EXPANDED area OUTSIDE of the Center City boundaries.

It wasn't supposed to offend anyone (other than the oversensitive, I suppose). My point is that some of the population figures are for very small, defined business and financial centers...while others are for much broader areas that include neighborhoods not necessarily within the "downtown" district.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Unread 04-10-2009, 04:47 AM
 
7,852 posts, read 11,543,010 times
Reputation: 2581
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
Excellent rebuttal Duderino. In defense of DeaconJ give him/her a break, he/she lives in Atl where things tend to sprawl, not that there is anything wrong with that. 90,000 people live in Center City another 50,000 residents and 50,000 college students live in adjacent University City(2.2 sq mi.). Nearly all walk, bike or take mass transit to work/ school.Nearly all residences built to serve the Central Business District.
My, how mature of you. I didn't single out Philadelphia in any way...but the figures are not accurate unless they are for similar areas in each city listed. You can be offended all you want and feel the need to defend your city in some way, but facts are facts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 04-10-2009, 07:38 AM
 
Location: DC Suburbs of Maryland (by way of PA)
2,548 posts, read 3,588,359 times
Reputation: 1870
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
Center City, Philadelphia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The 88,000 figure is from an EXPANDED area OUTSIDE of the Center City boundaries.

It wasn't supposed to offend anyone (other than the oversensitive, I suppose). My point is that some of the population figures are for very small, defined business and financial centers...while others are for much broader areas that include neighborhoods not necessarily within the "downtown" district.
No offense taken -- just simply wanted to respond to something that I didn't find to be true.

I am not trying to say that you're completely wrong. There are some cities that likely have bloated population numbers for their downtown. However, in Philadelphia's case, I don't find it to be credible to claim that those population numbers are excessive.

1.) I will reiterate my point that -- while the downtown is certainly centered on the Central Business District -- they are not necessarily coterminous with one another. Every city, including New York and Chicago, include immediate neighborhoods that are not necessarily considered part of the CBD:

Main Entry:
2down·town Listen to the pronunciation of 2downtown Listen to the pronunciation of 2downtown
Pronunciation:
\ˌdau̇n-ˈtau̇n, ˈdau̇n-ˌ\
Function:
noun
Date:
1845

: the lower part of a city ; especially : the main business district

downtown - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

2.) Business Districts and downtowns are not static. As the urban cores of cities are expanding in size, including the addition of office space and residential buildings, it will be common to see statistics or boundaries that are not always consistent. Nevertheless, even in the case of Philly, cities try to identify their downtowns by widely accepted boundaries with which residential population figures are derived. This is noted by the colored map below:



List of Philadelphia Residential Projects
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 04-10-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia,New Jersey, NYC!
6,974 posts, read 11,225,589 times
Reputation: 2445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalonian4life View Post
I agree. Anyone know if Philly is moving on with their new tallest?
they have a sign up at the site (which is a stupid surface parking lot now) but i think that we still need a anchor tenant which will be tough in this economy





but i'm still hopeful. the view would be so sweet from my roofdeck

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 04-10-2009, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Concrete jungle where dreams are made of.
8,904 posts, read 5,786,486 times
Reputation: 1819
I love Philly and al, but I gotta say...that is a weird looking building.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 04-10-2009, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia,New Jersey, NYC!
6,974 posts, read 11,225,589 times
Reputation: 2445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael84 View Post
I love Philly and al, but I gotta say...that is a weird looking building.
i know, it looks like a gigantic middle finger lol. its like the freedom tower's red-haired stepchild.

i'm hoping that they'll be a few design modifications if its built
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 04-10-2009, 08:45 AM
 
177 posts, read 274,404 times
Reputation: 196
Comparing populations of different 'downtowns' is futile, at best!

There is no set definition of downtown that goes across the board for all cities. Each city has different downtown boundaries, often multiple ones. For instance in Chicago, some say downtown is the heart of the CBD the loop (an area of only 1.6 sq miles), others say it includes river north/magnificent mile area (increasing it to about 3 sq miles), some say it stretches a distance of 4.5 miles from North to Cermak and west out to Halsted (an area of approximately 7 sq miles).

Heck, some consider the majority of manhattan to be 'downtown' for NYC. It all depends on the city, and there is no way to have an apples to apples comparison for the downtown populations of all cities. Its more based on visual interpretation, and experiencing and exploring each city core and surrounding hoods.

That all said, the most urban downtowns to me are NYC, Chi, SF, Philly, Boston and DC in roughly that order. I havent been to Seattle but it looks fairly urban, so maybe it should be included, though from street-level photos etc it seems less urban than say DC.

Smaller dense cities like Portland, Pittsburgh and Minneapolis are also quite urban, having similar elements just on a smaller scale than the cities mentioned above.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 04-10-2009, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia,New Jersey, NYC!
6,974 posts, read 11,225,589 times
Reputation: 2445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
No offense taken -- just simply wanted to respond to something that I didn't find to be true.

I am not trying to say that you're completely wrong. There are some cities that likely have bloated population numbers for their downtown. However, in Philadelphia's case, I don't find it to be credible to claim that those population numbers are excessive.

1.) I will reiterate my point that -- while the downtown is certainly centered on the Central Business District -- they are not necessarily coterminous with one another. Every city, including New York and Chicago, include immediate neighborhoods that are not necessarily considered part of the CBD:

Main Entry:
2down·town Listen to the pronunciation of 2downtown Listen to the pronunciation of 2downtown
Pronunciation:
\ˌdau̇n-ˈtau̇n, ˈdau̇n-ˌ\
Function:
noun
Date:
1845

: the lower part of a city ; especially : the main business district

downtown - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

2.) Business Districts and downtowns are not static. As the urban cores of cities are expanding in size, including the addition of office space and residential buildings, it will be common to see statistics or boundaries that are not always consistent. Nevertheless, even in the case of Philly, cities try to identify their downtowns by widely accepted boundaries with which residential population figures are derived. This is noted by the colored map below:



List of Philadelphia Residential Projects
yup, looks like it.
Center City District / Central Philadelphia Development Corporation Of Philadelphia

i remember when queen village/bella vista used to be south philly. and northern liberties used to be considered north philly
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 04-10-2009, 09:42 AM
 
7,852 posts, read 11,543,010 times
Reputation: 2581
Um...Duderino...I posted a statement and the link where it is found - it isn't simply my opinion. It states that the 88,000 population figure is for a larger area that is outside of the Center City boundaries. Is that not good enough for you???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Unread 04-10-2009, 10:27 AM
 
Location: DC Suburbs of Maryland (by way of PA)
2,548 posts, read 3,588,359 times
Reputation: 1870
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
Um...Duderino...I posted a statement and the link where it is found - it isn't simply my opinion. It states that the 88,000 population figure is for a larger area that is outside of the Center City boundaries. Is that not good enough for you???
Right. I understand that you didn't just pull that statement out of a hat, but that "expanded area" comment also relates to my point about the ever-expanding boundaries of cities' downtowns.

That statement regarding the "extended boundaries" came from a report by Center City's Development Corp., which is the organization responsible for monitoring and managing much of CC's development. While I am not trying to say that this organization is the end-all in defining the downtown, I would trust their judgment in terms of what development constitutes boundary growth of downtown, which indeed encompasses that 88,000-person figure.

Simply put -- these boundaries will continue to creep on onto adjacent streets as what is considered to be "downtown" is continually reassessed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $74,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:24 PM.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top