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If you think most of the Northeast's economy is agricultural, you're mistaken. In the Midwest and South it is.
Name me a few big tobacco producing Midwest states?
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People from the Northeast in general aren't exactly known for being polite.
That is something Southerners say about all Northerners. Chicago has a mean reputation to most Southerners anyway, just like Philly.
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There are plenty of Southern Americans of German ancestry.
Most of Pennsylvania is German in heritage, including Philly. They Southern or Midwestern now?
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That's certainly debatable.
This one I'm going on personal experience. The people I've known from the Northeast (outside of black folks) weren't exactly big on BBQing with family, like none of them. At all.
I can assure you most Chicago Polaks aren't big on BBQ either. But as far as Iowa goes, we would have to see stats.
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No, going by personal experience again. I lived in South Florida. I would wager I spent a lot more time around people from the Northeast than most Americans do.
Guess you haven't spent a lot of time around people from the Midwest.
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You are delusional if you truly think people from Iowa sound like Brooklyn or Boston, but OK.
Nice strawman. They don't. Brooklyn and Boston accents don't even sound like each other, either. Like, they follow such different pronunciation rules its not even funny how you group them together.
People from NORTHERN Iowa have more chance to sound like Brooklyn or Boston than they do any Southern dialect.
You can argue that nearly everyone has "picked up Black culture without a doubt." It's 2016 and we have Taylor Swift making commercials to Drake's "Jumpman." And we've got Beebs hanging out with the Money Team and West Coast rappers like G-Eazy rising to prominence. So yeah, most of us have picked up Black culture. This is nothing new.
But Black culture doesn't equal Southern culture. It seems that some non-Blacks believe the two are one in the same. But Black Southerners (and Black Americans in general) don't see it that way.
While Black culture does not equal Southern culture, Black culture has more Southern influence than any other ethnic background in the country.
Why would Blacks magically lose Southern influence upon entering the holy land of Philly and impart a purely Northern Black culture to their Italian immigrant counterparts? The notion that Blacks lost their Southern heritage after crossing the Mason Dixon is quite an entertaining thought.
I don't know any Black people born after 1930 who say "over yonder." And I know plenty of Jewish people who say y'all. There's this idea on C-D that "y'all" is not used in NYC but that's simply not true. Of course, nobody is going to use "y'all" as at a formal presentation, but it's not at all uncommon to hear born and raised New Yorkers say it.
I think one big difference between Chicago and Philly is that there was more cultural exchange/influence between Blacks and Whites. At least certain White ethnic groups anyway. Many of the dances that became famous on American bandstand (the Pony, the Twist, the Watusi) began in Black neighborhoods in South Philadelphia. Since Italian kids lived in close proximity to Black kids, they knew the dances, and exported those dances to places via Bandstand.
On the flipside, Blacks moved into or near neighborhoods that were Italian strongholds in the 50s, 60s and 70s. That's my guess as to why the word "Yo" became popular in Black communities in Northeastern cities. It also explains why water ice is by far the most popular summer treat in African American neighborhoods.
Your middle paragraph is why the White culture of Chicago natives is so deeply Northern. European influence there abounds as far as the eye can see. That's more of a foreign feel than a "down home" country feel.
And yet you entertain the notion that Chicago is Southern.
Either you've been having trouble comprehending what I've said in this thread or you're intentionally being disingenuous. I simply said Chicago's Black population has more Southern traits than Philadelphia's....a FAR cry from any type of assertion that "Chicago is Southern."
Name me a few big tobacco producing Midwest states?
Not tobacco, but other crops. I mean Iowa is agricultural, like the South for the most part.
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool
That is something Southerners say about all Northerners. Chicago has a mean reputation to most Southerners anyway, just like Philly.
I don't group all Northerners together, that was kind of the point I was trying to make. I've met very, very few rude Midwesterners. I have met a ton of rude people from the Northeast though.
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool
Most of Pennsylvania is German in heritage, including Philly. They Southern or Midwestern now?
No.
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool
I can assure you most Chicago Polaks aren't big on BBQ either. But as far as Iowa goes, we would have to see stats.
I can't give you stats, but we had a lot of transplants down in Florida (especially on the Gulf coast) from Iowa, including one family who are very close to my own. They aren't all that different from a lot of Southern people in many ways.
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool
Guess you haven't spent a lot of time around people from the Midwest.
Actually, yeah. A lot. I also have a lot of experience with Northeasterners and Southerners. When you live in Florida for two and a half decades, it comes with the territory. In my experience, folks from the Midwest do seem to have more in common with Southern people in many cases than they do with Northeasterners. Does that mean that folks from Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, etc are Souther? Well, no of course not. I was merely pointing out similarities that they share.
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool
Nice strawman. They don't. Brooklyn and Boston accents don't even sound like each other, either. Like, they follow such different pronunciation rules its not even funny how you group them together. People from NORTHERN Iowa have more chance to sound like Brooklyn or Boston than they do any Southern dialect.
We'll just have to agree to disagree here. I don't think they sound much like either one.
Looks like I voted for Philly back when this thread was started but I think the answer is Chicago, considering the influence of MI Delta region transplants, blues music and some other points made in the thread. Neither are truly Southern though.
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool
Your middle paragraph is why the White culture of Chicago natives is so deeply Northern. European influence there abounds as far as the eye can see. That's more of a foreign feel than a "down home" country feel.
I don't think there is a ubiquitous "Northern culture" among whites. That just sounds odd.
Looks like I voted for Philly back when this thread was started but I think the answer is Chicago, considering the influence of MI Delta region transplants, blues music and some other points made in the thread. Neither are truly Southern though.
I don't think there is a ubiquitous "Northern culture" among whites. That just sounds odd.
Not true. Northern culture = immigrant based
In fact, a common thread amongst all Northern cities east of the Rockies is that they all share common ethnic groups from Europe that are not Anglo.
This is the case in Boston, NYC, Chicago, and Minneapolis.
Not tobacco, but other crops. I mean Iowa is agricultural, like the South for the most part.
I don't group all Northerners together, that was kind of the point I was trying to make. I've met very, very few rude Midwesterners. I have met a ton of rude people from the Northeast though.
No.
I can't give you stats, but we had a lot of transplants down in Florida (especially on the Gulf coast) from Iowa, including one family who are very close to my own. They aren't all that different from a lot of Southern people in many ways.
Actually, yeah. A lot. I also have a lot of experience with Northeasterners and Southerners. When you live in Florida for two and a half decades, it comes with the territory. In my experience, folks from the Midwest do seem to have more in common with Southern people in many cases than they do with Northeasterners. Does that mean that folks from Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, etc are Souther? Well, no of course not. I was merely pointing out similarities that they share.
We'll just have to agree to disagree here. I don't think they sound much like either one.
Can we have a moment for the fact that Chicago, being a Great Lakes city is not the same kind of Midwest as Iowa or Indiana? There's middle America heartlands Midwest, and then there is immigrant heavy, strong European immigrant "ethnic" Great Lakes culture which actually isn't limited to the Midwest. People front Iowa, being of Middle American culture, are neither Northern nor Southern. Some random Polish guy from Chicago? That is zero commonality with the South.
And honestly, while Iowa may or may not have more commonalities with the South than Brooklyn, make no mistake Chicago's dominant culture does not.
Why would Blacks magically lose Southern influence upon entering the holy land of Philly and impart a purely Northern Black culture to their Italian immigrant counterparts? The notion that Blacks lost their Southern heritage after crossing the Mason Dixon is quite an entertaining thought.
Nobody said Black people lost all Southern influence upon crossing the Mason-Dixon. But since Philadelphia's African American community wasn't as segregated as Chicago's, it stands to reason that Southern influences would not be as well preserved as they were in Chicago.
On the point about Black migrants imbuing Whites in Philly, NYC, Boston with Southern culture: Can you identify any specific examples? I'm not talking about your speculation, but instead a source (article, journal, book) that talks about that.
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