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View Poll Results: Chicago or Philadelphia
Chicago 191 69.96%
Philadelphia 82 30.04%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-19-2016, 10:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad443 View Post
Are you serious, or just joking? Because this is truly a ridiculous post if you’re serious. Philly is one of the most urban cities in the nation, firmly based in the Northeastern United States throughout its long history--yet you claim it’s “slow and country-like” with a “very genteel, Old South mentality.” Absolutely ridiculous.

New York basically makes almost every city in the United States feel “slower”—including Chicago. Are you suggesting that Chicago is in New York’s league when compared to Philly? Granted, Chicago is a larger, more expansive city than Philadelphia with a much larger sky line. But on the ground, Chicago is far closer to Philly than it is to New York when it comes to its “pace” and energy. As far as Cleveland…seriously? My oldest brother’s wife is from Cleveland; it’s not even in Philly’s category when it comes to pace and energy.

When it comes to Philly’s accent, it is just that—a Philly accent. Are you really acquainted with real, actual southern accents? I’ve spent much time in different southern states. There are isolated traits of all American accents that show some overlap with other regional accents, and this might be the case with the Philly accent, in that it might share some isolated traits in common with some Southern accents. Many traditional southern accents shared the trait of non-rhoticity with New York and Boston, does that mean New York and Boston’s accents are therefore southern? Of course not, any accent must be taken in its totality. Any real, actual southerners would think you’re absolutely out of your mind if they heard an actual Philly accent and you tell them that it’s “southern.” The Philly accent is what it is—a Philly accent. It is its own thing.
What you say isn't a lie but out of the Midland accents, Philly is one of the more Southern in sound. The only Midland accent more Southern is Baltimore's.

That being said though, most peripheral Midland accents that border the South do develop Southern like characteristics. Cincinnati and Philly accents sound a lot alike and both areas border semi-Southern regions.
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Old 06-20-2016, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
Not nearly as many Germans as in the Midwest and the Northeast. Per county the only Southern states where German is the dominant ancestry are in parts of Texas and Oklahoma and Florida. Germans are primarily in Midwestern states only. Here is percent German by state...States with the highest number of Germans
Pennsylvania is the only Northeastern state with such a high percentage of German ancestry.

Oklahoma - 14.3%
Virginia - 11.8%
New Jersey - 11.0%
Arkansas - 10.9%
North Carolina - 10.7%
New York - 10.5%
Texas - 10.1%
South Carolina - 10.0%
Tennessee - 10.0%
Connecticut - 9.3%
Louisiana - 7.9%
Georgia - 7.2%
Massachusetts - 6.2%
Rhode Island - 5.5%

The Germans in the South Atlantic states largely came there through Pennsylvania.
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Old 06-20-2016, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Arch City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Pennsylvania is the only Northeastern state with such a high percentage of German ancestry.

Oklahoma - 14.3%
Virginia - 11.8%
New Jersey - 11.0%
Arkansas - 10.9%
North Carolina - 10.7%
New York - 10.5%
Texas - 10.1%
South Carolina - 10.0%
Tennessee - 10.0%
Connecticut - 9.3%
Louisiana - 7.9%
Georgia - 7.2%
Massachusetts - 6.2%
Rhode Island - 5.5%

The Germans in the South Atlantic states largely came there through Pennsylvania.
I know you and Eddie will disagree but I consider Maryland a Northeastern state as well and its German population per county is large, much larger than any Southern state as indicated by the map I provided. Your argument that German Americans are a Southern thing is simply false. Per county in most of the South they are not the dominant ancestry.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,245 posts, read 10,480,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
What you say isn't a lie but out of the Midland accents, Philly is one of the more Southern in sound. The only Midland accent more Southern is Baltimore's.

That being said though, most peripheral Midland accents that border the South do develop Southern like characteristics. Cincinnati and Philly accents sound a lot alike and both areas border semi-Southern regions.
This is true--some dialectical similarities exist between the Midland and South, but they're also two distinct areas for a reason. They're much more different than they are the same.

But for the purpose of this thread, that's where any Southern "commonalities" end in Philadelphia.
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,245 posts, read 10,480,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
If you really get to know Philly, there's a very genteel, Old South mentality here. Have you heard how Philadelphians speak? It's called a diphthong where people slur vowels together. The pace of Philadelphia is also slow and country-like. It you go into many of the neighborhoods behind/next to a group of row houses, you see picket fences and, in some cases, farm animals and crops. Did you know Philadelphia actually has a working private farm within its borders (in NE Philly). It also has Saul, the nation's only agricultural high school (in the Roxborough neighborhood).

Philly is a great city and 5th largest in the nation at 1.5 million people, but one of its greatest gifts is being 90 miles SE of New York, one of the great cities of the world. I often ride the train up to New York for the day and return to Philly at night. The differences in these 2 cities is stark; you feel the much slower country-like pace as soon as you get off the train back in Philly.
This has to be be tongue-in-cheek, because we all know that there's absolutely nothing "genteel" about Philadelphia. It is one of the indisputable hubs of quintessential East Coast culture. Politically, demographically, historically, economically--Philly has a very different story than anywhere in the South.

A slower pace than NYC? Sure, arguably every other city in the world meets that criterion.

Agricultural history? That's based on the land preservation ideals instilled by the Quakers, not Southern sharecropping.

Bordering a "technically" Southern state? Much like Maryland, DC and even parts of Virginia--any vestiges of Southernism that Delaware had at one time were in the very southern portion of the state, but that's largely gone today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
I grew up and still visit/live part-time in Cleveland. Chicago is like Cleveland's big brother city imho, and both are very "Yankee," if you know what I mean -- speech, attitude, etc.
Outside of some historic migration perhaps, there's very little that's "Yankee" about anything in the Midwest, so I'm not exactly sure how you're drawing this comparison.

I've also always thought it was well-known that widespread Southern migration to the Midwest, among both Whites and African-Americans, was a very real phenomenon during the era of mass manufacturing--much moreso than than anywhere in Pennsylvania or the rest of the Northeast. For that reason alone, there's bound to be a Southern influence throughout that region.

Last edited by Duderino; 06-20-2016 at 12:28 PM..
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
I know you and Eddie will disagree but I consider Maryland a Northeastern state as well and its German population per county is large, much larger than any Southern state as indicated by the map I provided. Your argument that German Americans are a Southern thing is simply false. Per county in most of the South they are not the dominant ancestry.
German Americans aren't much of a Northeastern thing either. Southern states, on average, have more German ancestry than Northeastern states (particularly New England).

Germans from Pennsylvania settled into the backcountry of Virginia and the Carolinas as well. They are an "older stock" population than Germans in the Midwest having settled throughout much of the South prior to the American Revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wagon_Road
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
This has to be be tongue-in-cheek, because we all know that there's absolutely nothing "genteel" about Philadelphia. It is one of the indisputable hubs of quintessential East Coast culture. Politically, demographically, historically, economically--Philly has a very different story than anywhere in the South.

A slower pace than NYC? Sure, arguably every other city in the world meets that criterion.

Agricultural history? That's based on the land preservation ideals instilled by the Quakers, not Southern sharecropping.

Bordering a "technically" Southern state? Much like Maryland, DC and even parts of Virginia--any vestiges of Southernism that Delaware had at one time were in the very southern portion of the state, but that's largely gone today.



Outside of some historic migration perhaps, there's very little that's "Yankee" about anything in the Midwest, so I'm not exactly sure how you're drawing this comparison.

I've also always thought it was well-known that widespread Southern migration to the Midwest, among both Whites and African-Americans, was a very real phenomenon during the era of mass manufacturing--much moreso than than anywhere in Pennsylvania or the rest of the Northeast. For that reason alone, there's bound to be a Southern influence throughout that region.
You realize that the quintessential Great Lakes / Northern state of Michigan actually was an extension of New York both culturally, linguistically, and demographically? Yankees didn't make their way to the Midwest, they definitely settled in the Great Lakes and that my friend is a historic fact. This is why the Great Lakes should not be mistakenly grouped with states like Missouri or Iowa as being "Midwest". There IS a Yankee history thus separating the NORTH from the Midwest/Midland region.

Culturally it makes more sense to separate Middle America, which is the Mid-Atlantic and the Midwest from the actual North (New England, New York, and the Great Lakes). It makes more sense based on ethnic groups, linguistics, culture, and history.

This is why it's easy to say Chicago is more Southern due to the fact Middle American culture is less removed from the South than actual Northern cities. But there's a problem with that: it's based on a false premise. Cities like Cincy, Indianapolis, and Kansas City had way more Southern White culture influence their main history and demographics but Chicago's mostly came from Blacks.

Chicago is a European influenced city in line with the Great Lakes. You don't see Polish people going around drinking sweet tea, or being friendly to be honest. The vibe of the dominant Great Lakes culture may not be Yankee, but it damn sure is not Southern or even Middle American like in Iowa or most of Indiana or Missouri.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:57 PM
 
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In this thread I've learned that Michigan isn't the midwest and people in Iowa essentially have BK accents. This forum is truly unlike any other.
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Old 06-20-2016, 02:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by VA All Day View Post
In this thread I've learned that Michigan isn't the midwest and people in Iowa essentially have BK accents. This forum is truly unlike any other.
And nobody mentions that this thread existing isn't equally as ridiculous. I've learned that Chicago is in the South! You also learned that Brooklyn and Boston have the same accent because it's all "East Coast". But no, let's cherry pick while we are at it.
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Old 06-20-2016, 02:22 PM
 
636 posts, read 603,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
And nobody mentions that this thread existing isn't equally as ridiculous. I've learned that Chicago is in the South! You also learned that Brooklyn and Boston have the same accent because it's all "East Coast". But no, let's cherry pick while we are at it.
No I agree, all that is pretty absurd too.

And to answer the thread topic I'd say Philly based on geographic proximity alone (if I *had* to choose one), but neither is particularly southern.
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