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I don't know if you have issues with reading English or something, but I never said it was the largest. Dallas has a large (meaning large, not largest, just in case you are still confused jluke) prominence in the oil, technology, and finance industries which is why it is one of the most important cities in America.
Not really; Dallas just happens to have a well-rounded economy, but that doesn't make it extremely important. Houston leads in Energy/Oil and trade. Dallas leads in neither of those things you listed.
Good but not good enough.My arguments with your input: 1)Energy capital of the World?You sure about that?Really,the whole world?WOW!!Just like we have the World Series yet none of the teams in the rest of the world can compete. 2)You want use Forbes?Yet you don't want to use the the Foreign Policy Report,the Globalization and World Cities Study Group ,Brookings or Pew Research. OMG!! Your biasness is just overwhelming at this point! 3)Are we talking cities or states?How many times you are gonna change the argument when you cannot win it? 4)Atlanta is growing just as fast as DAL/HOU.Its so close in fact that is really even pointless to bring it up.But ONE area of that where Atlanta is growing significantly more is by FOREIGN BORN POPULATION.Europe,Asia,Africa(exclude Mexico)Which do you think adds more to the local economy?Growth from Europe or Mexico(I mean Latin America) 5)Actually no I have not noticed a pattern of energy cities being more prevalent.Maybe you should stop talking out of your neck and provide a list? 6) Really lame?Maybe what is lame as you still cannot tell me why Houston is more important than Atlanta but not Boston,San Francisco,Chicago,D.C.,or L.A.?Maybe because you CAN"TTalk about lame.
7)We can go on all day by posting articles like Forbes that are not scientific .All of the cities mentioned, rank just as high in different polls.Lets stick to reputable sources with a proven track record using real data.Not talking 300 people on the street to come up with a conclusion.Census figures,Research groups,etc....
You really sound desperate.Keep trying though,you are improving according to me ,the teacher.I give you a .Now run along and go give that to your mama.:
haha! teacher that's funny!
You seem to be getting emotional. Am I pushing someone's buttons?
If you haven't figured out why we haven't been on the same page the whole time is because I am arguing logic and you are arguing statistics. The reasons I gave were very logical reasons as to why the city is important. You are trying to argue statistics and list when there are somethings that I don't think can be recorded in statistics. I think a good example of this is the Brookings Report. I did read through it, and they said that they were even surprised how low Houston ranked. The reason they gave was that Houston has was ranked so low was that much of its trade was a large portion of it's trade and commerce was domestic. And in addition who do you think these international energy companies are going to deal with in foriegn affairs? Cities or governments? Does it take into account how vital of it the cities port to the central United States and the distribution of oil and natural gas to the entire country? Is all this taken into account? well, I don't know. My guess would be probably not. Could I find statistics and data to support importance of Houston's seaport and Energy industry? Probably, but I think it is pretty strait forward to me, and if I haven't logically proven it's importance to the country already, then there really is no reasoning with you. At the same time, I don't disagree with the list or think that Houston was ranked way "too" low. Why would the make sure to accommodated for Houston's importance to infrastructure of the U.S. and not cities like LA or DC who have also ranked "too" low on some of these lists? There's cities all over the world that would deserve "exceptions" and that would be very irrational to expect them scientist to take that into account. They gathered the information, added up the numbers, and record the data.
I'm not questioning the credibility of the list, just the way you are using it. These list are not meant to determine the "importance" of a city, just its global connectivity. All though that is important, you haven't proven that Atlanta ranks so high in global connectivity it deserves to be ranked in the top 5. I've already made this argument, and I am assuming that sense you turned around and "attacked" Houston, it's because you can't manipulate the data enough for Atlanta to "rank" above Boston and SF.
I'm sure that you would love for me to bring statistics, because you seem to be much better at manipulating numbers than logic. I could bring up several rankings such as Fortune 500/1000, GDP, population growth (2007-2008) and projections, and how Houston is expected to recover a year or two before most cities, but most of that has been talked about and presented you just seem to have ignored it and stuck to a weak argument.
Any data you post, I'm going to take it into context of the big picture that you haven't put up a good case for Atlanta being ranked right bellow DC and Chicago, and all the data you keep posting is making cities like Miami, SF, or Boston sound like much better choice for the top 5.
I don't need to use data and statistics to prove that Houston is a very important international city for several reasons that I am not going to point out again.
And as for Forbes, not only have you thrown out several Forbes list, but I seem to remember someone accusing the Houston Air System of making up numbers, and backing it up with a Wikipedia link!
I feel that I haven't been clear, but my argument is not prove that Houston should be ranked number 5 or how much "greater" Houston is then every other city, but that you are trying to manipulate facts to support your theory, and I am not buying it. That and I've learned a lot about Atlanta, Houston, Boston, and Dallas through this whole debate! Atlanta really is fantastic city and I never meant to imply otherwise. I don't think is "importance" is going make a difference in the cities quality either.
Or he can just take a trip to TMC (World's largest Medical Center!) and get that problem fixed right away
Well that would make since that TMC would lead the nation in research of Footinmouth Disease.Seeing how on here It seems to mostly originate from Texas.I guess it is Texas where "Everything's Bigger." Including a big foot in a small mouth.LOL
You seem to be getting emotional. Am I pushing someone's buttons?
If you haven't figured out why we haven't been on the same page the whole time is because I am arguing logic and you are arguing statistics. The reasons I gave were very logical reasons as to why the city is important. You are trying to argue statistics and list when there are somethings that I don't think can be recorded in statistics. I think a good example of this is the Brookings Report. I did read through it, and they said that they were even surprised how low Houston ranked. The reason they gave was that Houston has was ranked so low was that much of its trade was a large portion of it's trade and commerce was domestic. And in addition who do you think these international energy companies are going to deal with in foriegn affairs? Cities or governments? Does it take into account how vital of it the cities port to the central United States and the distribution of oil and natural gas to the entire country? Is all this taken into account? well, I don't know. My guess would be probably not. Could I find statistics and data to support importance of Houston's seaport and Energy industry? Probably, but I think it is pretty strait forward to me, and if I haven't logically proven it's importance to the country already, then there really is no reasoning with you. At the same time, I don't disagree with the list or think that Houston was ranked way "too" low. Why would the make sure to accommodated for Houston's importance to infrastructure of the U.S. and not cities like LA or DC who have also ranked "too" low on some of these lists? There's cities all over the world that would deserve "exceptions" and that would be very irrational to expect them scientist to take that into account. They gathered the information, added up the numbers, and record the data.
I'm not questioning the credibility of the list, just the way you are using it. These list are not meant to determine the "importance" of a city, just its global connectivity. All though that is important, you haven't proven that Atlanta ranks so high in global connectivity it deserves to be ranked in the top 5. I've already made this argument, and I am assuming that sense you turned around and "attacked" Houston, it's because you can't manipulate the data enough for Atlanta to "rank" above Boston and SF.
I'm sure that you would love for me to bring statistics, because you seem to be much better at manipulating numbers than logic. I could bring up several rankings such as Fortune 500/1000, GDP, population growth (2007-2008) and projections, and how Houston is expected to recover a year or two before most cities, but most of that has been talked about and presented you just seem to have ignored it and stuck to a weak argument.
Any data you post, I'm going to take it into context of the big picture that you haven't put up a good case for Atlanta being ranked right bellow DC and Chicago, and all the data you keep posting is making cities like Miami, SF, or Boston sound like much better choice for the top 5.
I don't need to use data and statistics to prove that Houston is a very important international city for several reasons that I am not going to point out again.
And as for Forbes, not only have you thrown out several Forbes list, but I seem to remember someone accusing the Houston Air System of making up numbers, and backing it up with a Wikipedia link!
I feel that I haven't been clear, but my argument is not prove that Houston should be ranked number 5 or how much "greater" Houston is then every other city, but that you are trying to manipulate facts to support your theory, and I am not buying it. That and I've learned a lot about Atlanta, Houston, Boston, and Dallas through this whole debate! Atlanta really is fantastic city and I never meant to imply otherwise. I don't think is "importance" is going make a difference in the cities quality either.
You are so not even a speck on my mental radar for me to get upset over.Its only a forum.Why would I get mad?I only get mad if someone insults my integrity.Even then I say what I gotta say and move on.
I don't have to "manipulate numbers".Manipulating numbers is like saying "Houston is one of the top most diverse cities in the U.S".Then you say;"well we have one of the highest foreign born population in America.".Never mind the fact that EVERY measure of diversity thats out there,is clearly different when applied to Houston or Dallas.Of course you will have a high foreign born population!You are in a BORDER STATE!!LOL!! Then some of you try to minimize it by saying "oh we have more Vietnamese and Nigerians".WTF?Are they the only groups to come from overseas?Even in the Nigerian comment, I showed in the census where Atlanta had more Nigerians by percentage ANDnumbers.(the 2008 Census update).Yet people just keep repeating that Houston has the most in the country or South.Things change.They change faster in Atlanta.
Truth is percentages OFTEN get interchangeable with raw numbers.Percentages in the end are what is the most accurate.Not by themselves,but they do tell the whole story.What is also telling is how whenever you all do not agree with what has been said,all of a sudden,a switch of the arguments get turned around such as:"Houston is bigger,its land size gives a false reading".Yeh ok.Yet when those numbers make it look like "the big boys" its the truth.And the ONLY truth.
Another example:I was reading something that said Atlanta ranks #1 in the south with a population of over 500,000 to 1 million.Now I knew that was wrong,but this was a reputable source promoting Atlanta.Instead of running to post it.I looked where they found that source.Basically it was a trick. Because Atlanta has a population less than 1 million but more than 500,000.That leaves out Houston,Dallas in the over 1million people and Miami in under 500,000 people.That is total B.S.So I chose not to use it,because it was misleading.You guys are doing the same thing.
Sorry but if you cannot understand how the percentages(and numbers) work ,then sorry for you.
As I said before,I gave a perfect example of this:San Francisco being the most gay city.But its NOT.NYC is.Yet in most peoples mind San Fran is "gayer".(LOL,might not be a real word,but you know what i mean).So which is right?Is there a manipulation going on there?Which ONE is the manipulation?
The only manipulation going on here is You and some others trying to make your case when you only have basically ONE argument.In which case you are unable to make the case that I have made.You continue your "whinning" as not to look like you already do ,you turn it around and try to make it like I'M the one that is "twisting your words,the stats,the rotation of the world...whatever else you wanna blame me to make up for your own inadequacies.
I never said Houston was NOT important.I never said its seaports or oil industry was anything less than VITAL to our economy.Once again,I never said Houston or Dallas or any city was NOT worthy.Yet you and the "Texas Rangers" came in shootin off at the mouth because I and others don't necessarily pick Houston over OTHER cities.In this discussion,I NEVER said a NEGATIVE thing about Houston,I never even said it was not a contender for #5.Why because I say something positive about Atlanta being #5 do I have to be wrong?I don't think YOU are Wrong either.Their is ONLY data.I gave data that made GOOD arguments for it.If everyone actually thought as YOU and others do.How come almost every poll relating to this topic on C-D,Atlanta seems to win by FAR when match against Dallas and Houston?
Look it up see for yourself.I'm not saying this makes it right.I'm just saying that Atlanta is and should be considered on this list too.
One thing is you are right about this:
Quote:
importance" is going make a difference in the cities quality either.
Truth is percentages OFTEN get interchangeable with raw numbers.Percentages in the end are what is the most accurate.Not by themselves,but they do tell the whole story.What is also telling is how whenever you all do not agree with what has been said,all of a sudden,a switch of the arguments get turned around such as:"Houston is bigger,its land size gives a false reading".Yeh ok.Yet when those numbers make it look like "the big boys" its the truth.And the ONLY truth.
Thats your opinion and I respect that, but I believe raw numbers are more important and tell a better story.
Raw numbers gage exactly how many people are coming into an area, percentages vary too much. Otherwise we could say that Oklahoma City and Des Moines has a larger Asian population than Atlanta or Dallas. Would you agree with that?
Speaking of percentages I came across some articles reguarding the subjects in question.
Both articles state that the Asian population is growing at 50% in both DFW and Atlanta between 2000 and 2007. The difference is that Merto Atlanta's Asian population was 136,000 in 2000, DFW's was 193,000. So at that point, do we still say that their popualtions are growing the same, or do we give the nod to DFW because they had more to begin with?
Thats the descrepancy Im talking about.
Last edited by Cowboys fan in Houston; 10-13-2009 at 08:34 AM..
You are so not even a speck on my mental radar for me to get upset over.Its only a forum.Why would I get mad?I only get mad if someone insults my integrity.Even then I say what I gotta say and move on.
I don't have to "manipulate numbers".Manipulating numbers is like saying "Houston is one of the top most diverse cities in the U.S".Then you say;"well we have one of the highest foreign born population in America.".Never mind the fact that EVERY measure of diversity thats out there,is clearly different when applied to Houston or Dallas.Of course you will have a high foreign born population!You are in a BORDER STATE!!LOL!! Then some of you try to minimize it by saying "oh we have more Vietnamese and Nigerians".WTF?Are they the only groups to come from overseas?Even in the Nigerian comment, I showed in the census where Atlanta had more Nigerians by percentage ANDnumbers.(the 2008 Census update).Yet people just keep repeating that Houston has the most in the country or South.Things change.They change faster in Atlanta.
Truth is percentages OFTEN get interchangeable with raw numbers.Percentages in the end are what is the most accurate.Not by themselves,but they do tell the whole story.What is also telling is how whenever you all do not agree with what has been said,all of a sudden,a switch of the arguments get turned around such as:"Houston is bigger,its land size gives a false reading".Yeh ok.Yet when those numbers make it look like "the big boys" its the truth.And the ONLY truth.
Another example:I was reading something that said Atlanta ranks #1 in the south with a population of over 500,000 to 1 million.Now I knew that was wrong,but this was a reputable source promoting Atlanta.Instead of running to post it.I looked where they found that source.Basically it was a trick. Because Atlanta has a population less than 1 million but more than 500,000.That leaves out Houston,Dallas in the over 1million people and Miami in under 500,000 people.That is total B.S.So I chose not to use it,because it was misleading.You guys are doing the same thing.
Sorry but if you cannot understand how the percentages(and numbers) work ,then sorry for you.
As I said before,I gave a perfect example of this:San Francisco being the most gay city.But its NOT.NYC is.Yet in most peoples mind San Fran is "gayer".(LOL,might not be a real word,but you know what i mean).So which is right?Is there a manipulation going on there?Which ONE is the manipulation?
The only manipulation going on here is You and some others trying to make your case when you only have basically ONE argument.In which case you are unable to make the case that I have made.You continue your "whinning" as not to look like you already do ,you turn it around and try to make it like I'M the one that is "twisting your words,the stats,the rotation of the world...whatever else you wanna blame me to make up for your own inadequacies.
I never said Houston was NOT important.I never said its seaports or oil industry was anything less than VITAL to our economy.Once again,I never said Houston or Dallas or any city was NOT worthy.Yet you and the "Texas Rangers" came in shootin off at the mouth because I and others don't necessarily pick Houston over OTHER cities.In this discussion,I NEVER said a NEGATIVE thing about Houston,I never even said it was not a contender for #5.Why because I say something positive about Atlanta being #5 do I have to be wrong?I don't think YOU are Wrong either.Their is ONLY data.I gave data that made GOOD arguments for it.If everyone actually thought as YOU and others do.How come almost every poll relating to this topic on C-D,Atlanta seems to win by FAR when match against Dallas and Houston?
Look it up see for yourself.I'm not saying this makes it right.I'm just saying that Atlanta is and should be considered on this list too.
One thing is you are right about this:
I'm not sure why brought up demographics. I haven't really said much about demographics this whole thread.
The whole reason I brought up Houston again was because you asked me to make a case for it when you couldn't tell me why your list would prove that Atlanta would be ranked of cities like SF, Boston, and Miami. If you already thought Houston should be taken into consideration for the top 5, then why did you ask? I even said that Houston is a for sure lock for #5. I'm not quit sure it would rank above cities like Boston, SF, or Dallas. Stop pointing the finger at me and fill some gaps in your own theory. You have yet to tell me why your evidence proves that Atlanta is could reasonably be ranked right behind DC or Chicago. Every list you have provided has had Atlanta bellow SF, Miami, or Boston, if not all 3. So you still haven't answered why it should be ranked above those cities in spite of what your information provides? Again, I say you haven't proven anything. You just have a manipulation of facts to prove your point.
Not really; Dallas just happens to have a well-rounded economy, but that doesn't make it extremely important. Houston leads in Energy/Oil and trade. Dallas leads in neither of those things you listed.
I wouldnt say it makes Dallas more important than Houston, but it does give Dallas advantages over Houston.
Dallas has more banks' HQ's, a federal reserve, and the reigional branch of the FDIC. I would think that would give Dallas the nod financially, but maybe they know somthing I dont. Just like maybe the GaWC know something you guys dont.
I wouldnt say it makes Dallas more important than Houston, but it does give Dallas advantages over Houston.
Dallas has more banks' HQ's, a federal reserve, and the reigional branch of the FDIC. I would think that would give Dallas the nod financially, but maybe they know somthing I dont. Just like maybe the GaWC know something you guys dont.
Of course having a more well rounded economy gives Dallas an advantage, but not to the point where it's more important.
Thats your opinion and I respect that, but I believe raw numbers are more important and tell a better story.
Raw numbers gage exactly how many people are coming into an area, percentages vary too much. Otherwise we could say that Oklahoma City and Des Moines has a larger Asian population than Atlanta or Dallas. Would you agree with that?
Speaking of percentages I came across some articles reguarding the subjects in question.
Both articles state that the Asian population is growing at 50% in both DFW and Atlanta between 2000 and 2007. The difference is that Merto Atlanta's Asian population was 136,000 in 2000, DFW's was 193,000. So at that point, do we still say that their popualtions are growing the same, or do we give the nod to DFW because they had more to begin with?
Thats the descrepancy Im talking about.
I have said over and over that when its too close to call,it ridiculous to make a case for or against.It JUST IS.However you got to admit,you were surprised yourself that it was not as wide as you made it out to be originally.I said over and over because it makes since that Dallas or Houston by totals alone will win in every category.That is a misrepresentation of exactly what is the real truth.
My whole thing is that I can handle Atlanta not being in the top 5,but its should be based on "real and current" data rather than what "once was".If an argument is going to be made,then lets be TOTALLY honest.
This whole thing started with HOUSTON.Houston has ALWAYS made these claims,so it should be the one that should be scrutinized the most.
I'm not sure why brought up demographics. I haven't really said much about demographics this whole thread.
The whole reason I brought up Houston again was because you asked me to make a case for it when you couldn't tell me why your list would prove that Atlanta would be ranked of cities like SF, Boston, and Miami. If you already thought Houston should be taken into consideration for the top 5, then why did you ask? I even said that Houston is a for sure lock for #5. I'm not quit sure it would rank above cities like Boston, SF, or Dallas. Stop pointing the finger at me and fill some gaps in your own theory. You have yet to tell me why your evidence proves that Atlanta is could reasonably be ranked right behind DC or Chicago. Every list you have provided has had Atlanta bellow SF, Miami, or Boston, if not all 3. So you still haven't answered why it should be ranked above those cities in spite of what your information provides? Again, I say you haven't proven anything. You just have a manipulation of facts to prove your point.
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Maybe what is lame as you still cannot tell me why Houston is more important than Atlanta but not Boston,San Francisco,Chicago,D.C.,or L.A.?Maybe because you CAN"T
.Now run along and go give that to your mama.:
I only get mad if someone insults my integrity.Even then I say what I gotta say and move on.
