New York State VS. California (living, cost, better, rates)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by jknic

In MY back yard (or my neighbor's) here in Jersey (which has a similar climate to parts of NY), we have

Figs (you have to wrap them in the winter to get fruit)
Nectarines (my uncle has an orchard of these)
Plums (I think one of our old neighbors used to, I can't remember so if I'm wrong opps)
Raisins (and by raisins, I'm sure you mean grapes, NY has many Vineyards and can therefore easily produce raisins)
Walnuts (my neighbor had a Walnut Tree)

Im aware that NJ grows produce but California grows more than half(meaning over 50%) of the nations fruits and vegetables.

Meaning every state on the Eastern Seaboard could combine and still grow considerably LESS produce than California.

[eek]

Originally Posted by Lifeshadower

I love how you contradict yourself by saying that "you have a lot of Asians" but concede on point to say "the West Coast has more Asians". They're simply apart of the cultural landscape here, and not just a recent phenomenon.

More to the point though, gotta love beating a dead horse here, huh? To reiterate myself

first off, its not a contradiction. ny has tons of asians and cali has tons of asians. ny has the highest population of asians outside of the west coast.

let me be specific. NYC, not NYS, NYC has the highest number of asians on the east coast, the midwest and ONLY rivals with THE STATE of cali.

in other words, one city against ONE WHOLE STATE.

so where is the contradiction? one city is carrying the whole state. we don't have a san francisco or a san diego or other cities that are similar to our main city whereas cali does. it says a lot that one city can compare a population that it has to the rest of the entire country.

also, LOL at asians being some "new" phenomenon in nyc. please.

lol @ ppl cosigning that foolishness.

I don't understand why you guys are so stubborn about this. NYC =/= NY State (just ask the posters from Upstate New York), and LA =/= California (ask the 22 million people [you know, 3 more million people than all of the state of New York] who don't live in the LA metropolitan area). The comparison here is California vs. New York State. I'm glad most of the posters here understood that, but there has been a vocal minority who have to insist on shortening it to NYC vs. LA/CA/the world.

well, when you talk about NY state you have to mention the largest city in NY state which is NYC.

you don't leave los angeles or san diego out of a cali debate just like you don't leave nyc out of a ny debate. period. you know this.

Stop using New York City as NYS only clutch it can stand on. It's thoroughly insulting to those who live in Upstate New York, who live an amazing area themselves. Either you take the whole thing (good or bad), or you don't even try to make the comparison. The lack of intellectual honesty is sickening.

Since some people are so hell-bent on putting the Northeast in as a whole to control for size, then here you go:

Northeast Megaregion: 67% White, 15% Black, 11% Latino, 5% Asian, 2% other, 17% foreign born (amongst 55 million people) [Source: Page 9 of the 2nd Benner and Pastor link I gave].

check this out.

if you are from upstate ny and you want to join the debate, you can go ahead and join the debate. nobody is stopping you.

now, forcing a person that is not from upstate to focus on upstate for your benefit is stupid.

i'm going to talk about nyc because that is where i'm from and that is what i know. again, nyc is a part of nys.

and i don't see why ppl from jersey are running their mouths about stuff that has nothing to do with them. nobody cares about jersey but jersey.

[eek]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

NYC can't even hang with New Jersey.

California eats Belgium for lunch and South Korea for dinner.

Please, go up against somewhere you might actually beat.

and then you woke up.

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

I think the foreign born comparison with NY versus Cali is flawed because it borders a country in which many people are leaving to get to, legally and illegally.

With NY, besides bordering Canada, which isn't sending people to the US, most of the foreign born have to come from further away to get to NY.

Also, NY's "diversity" is more in line with the nation's "diversity". Then, you have to think about the diversity within the diversity. For instance, NY has more Black people than any other state and they range from African-Americans than have always been in NY, that migrated from the South, from the Caribbean, Africa and South America. So, even the diversity within all racial groups in NY come from a wide range.

thank you.

and the same goes for those whites the other person was talking about. a lot, A LOT come from russia, other areas of eastern europe, england, ireland, etc.

and if they aren't foreign born then their parents are. mad ppl here have ties to hundreds of other countries.

also:

Queens one of 'most diverse places on Earth,' new figures show

BY Lisa L. Colangelo (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Lisa%20L.%20Colangelo - broken link)
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Sunday, July 12th 2009, 2:27 AM

[LEFT]
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...#ixzz0akBd04AO


[/LEFT]
Queens has been touted as a diverse borough that is home to immigrants from all over the globe, and a key component of New York City's melting pot.

But the sheer number of cultures represented by its 2.2 million residents truly sets the borough apart from the rest of the city and beyond, according to new figures released last week.
"Queens is probably one of the most diverse places on Earth," said Joseph Salvo, a well-known demographer with the city Planning Department. "There are 1 million immigrants and a mix that is perhaps unprecedented in this borough's history."
Salvo described recent borough population trends for a group of Queens officials last week with the help of a dizzying array of charts and graphs.
The foreign-born population of Queens increased 6.3% between 2000 and 2006, he said.
That population is almost equally divided among a number of Asian and Hispanic groups hailing from countries including China, Guyana, Ecuador, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, India and Korea.
China tops the list, accounting for 11% of Queens' foreign-born population. That includes people from Hong Kong and Taiwan.
A look at race and origin also underscores the unique complexion of Queens, Salvo said.
"Each borough has a different story," he said. "The Bronx is half Hispanic and Brooklyn has a large black-Caribbean population."
Manhattan has a large non-Hispanic white population, partly because of the constant influx of young people. But it also has a large Hispanic population in Washington Heights.
Staten Island has a large number of white residents (72%). But its culturally mixed North Shore "has become like the rest of the city," Salvo said.
"Queens has quite a different profile, with equal components of the major groups," he said, referring to categories of white non-Hispanic, Hispanic, black non-Hispanic, Asian and multi-racial.
The surge in Hispanic groups in Queens is most notable among Ecuadorans. It jumped 68.9% between 2000 and 2006. The number of Mexicans increased 30%.
Mexicans are now the largest immigrant group in Astoria, an area once dominated by Greeks and Italians.
Assemblyman José Peralta, a first-generation Dominican-American, said growing numbers of Mexicans and Ecuadorans are settling in Jackson Heights and Corona as they find well-established enclaves there.
"The Colombians and Dominicans have been here longer and are moving from rentals to buying homes in East Elmhurst, Long Island and New Jersey," said Peralta. "In some cases, the Dominicans are renting out their properties to new waves of immigrants who are making Corona their home."
In 1970, only 21% of the borough's population was foreign-born. In 2000, that number jumped to more than 46%.
The constant flow into Queens of immigrants, who generally open small businesses, helps keep the local economy running, Peralta said.
"They are the economic engine that is vital for the borough," he said.
lcolangelo@nydailynews.com

Read more: Queens one of 'most diverse places on Earth,' new figures show

source:
Queens one of 'most diverse places on Earth,' new figures show

do you realize how many east indians, pakistanis, ppl from afghanistan, chinese, west indians, puerto ricans, dominicans, haitians, etc. that we have here?

[ckhthankgod]

Also, in terms of Upstate NY, cities like Ithaca, Syracuse, Binghamton, Utica and Troy have their share of Asians due to the colleges in those communities and/or SE Asian refugees/immigrants that come to those cities. Out of all those cities, Ithaca has the highest percentage at around 17%. Gang Mills outside of Corning is another community with quite a few Asians(around 9%) as well due to Corning, Inc. Some suburbs like Brighton near Rochester, Niskayuna near Schenectady, Manlius near Syracuse, Vestal and Johnson City near Binghamton and Amherst near Buffalo, have quite a few Asians, in relative percentages.

Cities like Amsterdam and Dunkirk have Hispanic percentages at around 20%, with the major cities in Upstate having Hispanic communities in decent amounts as well. Even cities like Geneva, Utica, Newark and some others have good amounts as well.

[Lifeshadower]

Let me start off by saying that I'm happy by the level of analysis here.

Originally Posted by eek

first off, its not a contradiction. ny has tons of asians and cali has tons of asians. ny has the highest population of asians outside of the west coast.

let me be specific. NYC, not NYS, NYC has the highest number of asians on the east coast, the midwest and ONLY rivals with THE STATE of cali.

in other words, one city against ONE WHOLE STATE.

so where is the contradiction? one city is carrying the whole state. we don't have a san francisco or a san diego or other cities that are similar to our main city whereas cali does. it says a lot that one city can compare a population that it has to the rest of the entire country.

However, the state you are comparing New York to just happens to have the highest number of Asian Americans. Just give credit where credit is due!

Asian American population by state (2008 American Community Survey):
1) California- 5,008,379
2) New York- 1,443,367
(Source: American FactFinder)

California has twice the population of New York (189% more population), but has 346% Asian population.

I don't know what you mean by the last part of your post.

also, LOL at asians being some "new" phenomenon in nyc. please.

lol @ ppl cosigning that foolishness.

Show me evidence where Asian Americans were a presence BEFORE 1965 (if you don't know what this is, this is the Hart-Cellar Act) Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra...ty_Act_of_1965 | http://www.asian-nation.org/1965-immigration-act.shtml |. By presence, I mean they were more than 2% of New York State OR New York City's population (in other words, statistically significant). If you can't, then don't deride the assertion.

well, when you talk about NY state you have to mention the largest city in NY state which is NYC.

you don't leave los angeles or san diego out of a cali debate just like you don't leave nyc out of a ny debate. period. you know this.

Yeah, but in THIS thread (you know, the California v. New York State thread), this is about the whole STATE, not just about their cities. No one was leaving Los Angeles or San Diego out of the thread, and no one is leaving New York City out of this comparison. However, New York City boosters are LIMITING the comparison STRICTLY to NYC because some people feel that's enough to push New York State over California.

It's like this; imagine you were comparing music albums. I contend that one album is better than the other one because every song it was really good. Then imagine another person saying that a whole album is good BECAUSE of one hit song. By repeatedly touting out that one song, people are going to want to know what's on the rest of the CD, but you don't let them hear it. That's what you're doing with New York State. You're limiting yourself to one really good part of the state, and by omission, think the rest is garbage.

Give us more credit than that.

check this out.

if you are from upstate ny and you want to join the debate, you can go ahead and join the debate. nobody is stopping you.

now, forcing a person that is not from upstate to focus on upstate for your benefit is stupid.

i'm going to talk about nyc because that is where i'm from and that is what i know. again, nyc is a part of nys.

and i don't see why ppl from jersey are running their mouths about stuff that has nothing to do with them. nobody cares about jersey but jersey.

Then why respond to the thread if you weren't going to follow directions anyways?

Originally Posted by eek

and then you woke up.



thank you.

and the same goes for those whites the other person was talking about. a lot, A LOT come from russia, other areas of eastern europe, england, ireland, etc.

and if they aren't foreign born then their parents are. mad ppl here have ties to hundreds of other countries.

also:


source:
Queens one of 'most diverse places on Earth,' new figures show

do you realize how many east indians, pakistanis, ppl from afghanistan, chinese, west indians, puerto ricans, dominicans, haitians, etc. that we have here?

Unlike you, I have the relevant numbers
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/csre/reports/report_15.pdf (Page 13, for California)
http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/ce..._table_5_4.pdf (For New York City and environs)

Enough speculation, the numbers are here. You wanted a NYC against
California comparison, now you have it.

On diversity rankings, yes Queens, NY is the most diverse county in the United States. However, this thread AGAIN isn't about only NYC.

Claritas Study Ranks Racial/Ethnic Diversity in Counties Nationwide; Analysis Shows California Leads Nation In Diversity Among Counties Of 100,000-Plus Population | Business Wire | Find Articles at BNET

(Counties with 100,000-plus Population in 2000)

County 2000 Rank Rank Diversity Diversity Change
Population 1990 2000 1990 2000 1990-2000

Queens,
NY 2,229,379 1 1 67.5 73.6 6.1

Alameda, CA
(Oakland) 1,443,741 8 2 64.4 70.7 6.3

Kings, NY
(Brooklyn) 2,465,326 2 3 67.5 69.7 2.2

Robeson, NC 123,339 6 4 66.2 69.0 2.8

Fort Bend, TX
(Suburban
Houston) 354,452 11 5 62.7 68.1 5.4

Hudson, NJ 608,975 9 6 64.3 67.6 3.3

New York, NY
(Manhattan) 1,537,195 7 7 65.6 67.1 1.5

Harris, TX
(Houston) 3,400,578 13 8 61.6 67.1 5.5

Los Angeles,
CA 9,519,338 4 9 66.7 67.0 0.3

Dallas, TX 2,218,899 28 10 56.9 66.5 9.6

San Francisco,
CA 776,733 3 11 67.1 66.5 -0.6

Solano, CA 394,542 22 12 57.8 66.0 8.2

Santa Clara,
CA 1,682,585 19 13 58.8 66.0 7.2

Cook, IL 5,376,741 18 14 58.8 65.3 6.5

Essex, NJ
(Newark) 793,633 12 15 62.4 65.2 2.8

San Joaquin,
CA 563,598 21 16 58.1 64.5 6.4

Bronx, NY 1,332,650 5 17 66.3 63.6 -2.7

San Mateo,
CA 707,161 24 18 57.4 63.3 5.9

San Bernardino,
CA 1,709,434 34 19 55.0 62.9 7.9

Fresno, CA 799,407 14 20 60.6 62.8 2.2

So, except for Los Angeles and San Francisco Counties, all the counties represented on this list from California increased in diversity by more than a margin of 3 index points except Fresno county.

For New York, Bronx lost 2.7 index points, Manhattan by only 1.5 index points, and
Brooklyn by only 2.2 index points. Queens was the only county with more than 5 index
points. If these trends hold, Alameda County will be considered more diverse than
Queens County by the 2010 census.

Out of 62 counties in NY State, 4 counties are on the top 20 most diverse (representing 7,564,550 people OR 40% of New York State's population in 2000)
Out of 58 counties in California, 9 counties are in the top 20 most diverse (representing 17,596,539 people OR 52% of California's population in 2000)

So, its more likely that the average Californian resident is living in a diverse county and area than the average New York State resident. And if the trend holds into 2010, California will be even more diverse than it is now. What's even more amazing is that two of these counties (San Joaquin and Fresno) aren't attached to a large metropolitan areas (and remember: SF Bay Area and Los Angeles ARE around 400 miles away from each other) BUT are rather mostly rural in nature. Most of New York State's diverse areas are within New York City, right next to each other. Try to at least understand that California has diversity in urban AND rural areas! I understand that New York State does too, but it's not to the extent of California.

If you want an analysis of the foreign born population of California, check out my previous post.

I just wonder what the cop-out explanation will be now?

For the record, I've lived in both areas and deeply respect both areas. Again, give credit where credit is due!

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Also, in terms of Upstate NY, cities like Ithaca, Syracuse, Binghamton, Utica and Troy have their share of Asians due to the colleges in those communities and/or SE Asian refugees/immigrants that come to those cities. Out of all those cities, Ithaca has the highest percentage at around 17%. Gang Mills outside of Corning is another community with quite a few Asians(around 9%) as well due to Corning, Inc. Some suburbs like Brighton near Rochester, Niskayuna near Schenectady, Manlius near Syracuse, Vestal and Johnson City near Binghamton and Amherst near Buffalo, have quite a few Asians, in relative percentages.

Cities like Amsterdam and Dunkirk have Hispanic percentages at around 20%, with the major cities in Upstate having Hispanic communities in decent amounts as well. Even cities like Geneva, Utica, Newark and some others have good amounts as well.

If I could, I'd rep this post, but I can't because I have to spread it around. Cordiality gets you a long way

[jknic]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

NYC can't even hang with New Jersey.

and what's that supposed to mean?

The only reason NJ lost on the poll here on City Data is that the poll was limited to less than 50 people. If you read the arguments, there were arguably more people for NJ.


Back on topic

Like I said in the beginning, they're both pretty good, CA only offers more due to it's size. If you cut CA in Half, then it would be a better comparison. As for food, it does not matter how much food you produce, it matters WHERE that food goes. If most of it gets shipped to other countries or stays west of the Mississippi then it doesn't matter on the issue of who has fresher food. In the long run, both sides will have equally fresh foods (season dependent of course) with the exception of some more exotic foods such as Pineapples, Bananas, and Kiwis.

Overall, I think CA always wins because it's glorified by the media, for the most part it's not that different than the rest of the U.S.

[eek]

there is no cop out. nyc not being allowed in the discussion because you want to prove your point is moving goal posts.

i guess ny state doesn't include nyc anymore so no need to bring up nyc when talking about the state of ny vs cali.

and again, i already said that the west coast has more asians than the east (read: ny) and i also said that nyc has more asians than all of the u.s. minus the west coast.
so again, this is saying that cali has more asians than nyc.

but cali makes up THE ENTIRE WEST COAST minus washington state. an entire coast vs one city, son. ny has more asians than lke 48 or 49 states. YOU give credit where credit is "due," considering the size of ny (and nyc in particular here) vs. the size of cali.

and no offense, but who cares about asians? like they are the only ethnicity in the world or something. how many dominicans, puerto ricans, eastern europeans does cali have? why are we focusing on asians when i already said the above about the west coast having more??

[eek]

also, your selective memory allows you to forget what i said earlier:

Originally Posted by eek

honestly tho, as for the entire state, cali wins because you have other major cities worth living in (sorry to the heads from syracuse, buffalo, etc. but eh...i'd rather be in nyc or nothing at all as far as the state of ny. at least with cali they have san francisco, san diego and los angeles, all of which are great cities that i wouldn't mind living in.).

but i guess i'm not respecting cali.

[bronx_kidd]

eek ..."asians" are not an ethnicity ...maybe to you but your wrong

where are all the Vietnamese?Japanese?Filipino?Cambodian?Thai?Malays ian? Koreans?

so thats like saying all latins or all whites even though there are seperate ethnicities like russian, albainian, etc

[eek]

Originally Posted by bronx_kidd

eek ..."asians" are not an ethnicity ...maybe to you but your wrong

where are all the Vietnamese?Japanese?Filipino?Cambodian?Thai?Malays ian? Koreans?

so thats like saying all latins or all whites even though there are seperate ethnicities like russian, albainian, etc

i said ethnicity as far as asians because if you are of vietnamese/japanese/korean/etc. (read: asian) descent and living in america then your nationality is american (as you are a citizen) and your ethnicity would be korean/chinese/filipino/etc., would it not?? i'm aware that asians are a race.

i get what youre saying, tho.

*edit*
actually according to google, wiki, etc. i'm correct.